NOOBS! *LOOK HERE IF YOU WANT TO BUILD A TURBO KIT!* All info+stock WG settings
04-07-2007, 01:35 PM
#11
0.0 BAR
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1
Re: NOOBS! *LOOK HERE IF YOU WANT TO BUILD A TURBO KIT!* All info+stock WG settings
Hey guys i am new to the whole thing well i am going to end up putting a turbo on my 2003 dodge neon and i know its not a civic like ya'lls but i am trying to see since it is still a Mitsubishi motor how would i go the cheapest way of turboing it with home mdae suggestions..lol i mean i am serious what are the basic i mean i need oil lines a charge pipe/Bov manifold,TURBO,intercooler/piping,down pipe,boost gauge,SAFC any thing else i mean i am not into going into the computer because tweaking these new cars is a hassle when doing so so what is the best way of getting around it?
Please guys i not here to get flamed and i am sure ya'll are going to but just some greatly needed advise would be what i need...
Please guys i not here to get flamed and i am sure ya'll are going to but just some greatly needed advise would be what i need...
04-16-2007, 03:48 AM
#12
1.5 BAR
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,162
Re: NOOBS! *LOOK HERE IF YOU WANT TO BUILD A TURBO KIT!* All info+stock WG settings
Originally Posted by geonracer
Hey guys i am new to the whole thing well i am going to end up putting a turbo on my 2003 dodge neon and i know its not a civic like ya'lls but i am trying to see since it is still a Mitsubishi motor how would i go the cheapest way of turboing it with home mdae suggestions..lol i mean i am serious what are the basic i mean i need oil lines a charge pipe/Bov manifold,TURBO,intercooler/piping,down pipe,boost gauge,SAFC any thing else i mean i am not into going into the computer because tweaking these new cars is a hassle when doing so so what is the best way of getting around it?
Please guys i not here to get flamed and i am sure ya'll are going to but just some greatly needed advise would be what i need...
Please guys i not here to get flamed and i am sure ya'll are going to but just some greatly needed advise would be what i need...
Secondly.....u say u don't want to be flamed but you go and ask questions about what u need to turbo ur car in a post that tells u abotu everything u need to know about turboing ur car......noobs..........
third....u don't want to "go into your computer because tweaking these cars are a hassle"......uhhh......if you don't tune ur setup....you will blow ur shyt up quick.
n e body else want a peice of this noob....
04-24-2007, 04:54 PM
#13
0.5 BAR
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 137
Re: NOOBS! *LOOK HERE IF YOU WANT TO BUILD A TURBO KIT!* All info+stock WG settings
Originally Posted by projekteg
well, no matter how many times we tell the newbies to search for answers to their questions, they just don't get it, so noobs, i'm spoon feeding this information to on what you need for a complete turbo kit and some places that you can find these items :P
TURBO- ok, lets start with the basics, you're going to need 1 turbo charger (unless you're whitey, then you need 2)! the turbo is one item in itself, it doesn't include the manifold! usually they come with an internal wastegate already so you don't have to buy a wastegate unless a) your turbo didn't come with one or b) you would rather use an external wg. a lot of common turbo's are t3's off of volvo's, saab's, old turbo mustangs and thunderbirds, and also all turbo's off of dsm's are pretty common for home made set ups. good places to find a used turbo are:
www.ebaymotors.com
https://www.homemadeturbo.com/forum/index.php?board=4
www.dsmtrader.com
your local junk yard
used turbo's can range anywhere from about 80 bucks up to around 200 bucks or more. there are many different sizes, trims, a/r's etc. when looking for a turbo, which turbo is best for your application IS UP TO YOU TO FIND OUT BY 'SEARCHING!'.
MANIFOLD- the manifold is the thing that actually bolts to your head where your stock manifold/header was and is what your turbo is connected to.
B series manifolds
The Manifold is one of the key parts to a custom turbokit. Lots of companys are making custom tubular and log manifolds for the import market. It's deciding which one you want. Lots of different styles, some support AC, some are more of a Race design, and some are cheap cast designs. Below is Pics for B-series Turbo Manifolds with the T3 Turbo flange (B16/B17/B18/B20 etc) Some have external wastegate flanges, some don't, some manifolds are cast Iron, some are stainless steel. These manifolds range from $150-$1200
d series manifolds
like the 'b' series, many companies make custom manifold for d series also, but d series guys have one other option also.......The "HF Manifold"
Everyone refers to it as the HF manifold but it came on other cars too. it came on the 88-91 CRX HF. it also came on a 88-91 Civic Std, they are hatchbacks with a 4 speed, vinal interior, and a black panel on the hatch that says 'Civic', (base model) Another car that has them is a 92-95 Civic CX/VX hatch. Newer cars have the precat style manifold like the HF manifolds. But they Pre-cat and manifold are 1 piece. You would have to chop off the cat inorder to use it. all you will need to use this as a turbo manifold is an 'adapter plate' which bolts to the manifold where the cat was and has a bolt pattern on the other side, the same as the turbo you choose to use, then you can just bolt the turbo to the manifold.
places to find manifolds and adapter plates:
www.bmcrace.com (manifolds, adapters, and flanges)
www.rank1racing.com
www.ebaymotors.com
https://www.homemadeturbo.com/forum/index.php?board=4
http://www.jgstools.com/turbo/index2.html
and many more places, just SEARCH
INTERCOOLER- an intercooler is not neccessary, but is highly reccomended, it cools the air coming from the turbo that goes in to your engine, cooler air equals less chance of detonation (not good) and you can run more boost safely. there are side mount intercoolers (smic) that people ususally tuck up under their wheel well, and there are front mount inter coolers (fmic) that go up front behind your bumper cover. which ever you want is up to you, obviously a frount mount is a little more effective since it gets more air flow, but an smic does a pretty good job also as long as you don't plan on running really high amounts of boost. intercoolers can range from $30-$1000
a few good places to get intercoolers:
www.speedpartsrus.com
www.johnnyracecar.com
www.dsmtrader.com
www.ebaymotors.com
https://www.homemadeturbo.com/forum/index.php?board=4
your local junk yard
BLOW OFF VALVE (bov)- a 'bov' is what give you that 'cool' sound you hear when you're changing gears, basically, what it's doing is releasing pressure out of the charge pipes. when you let your foot off the gas and the throttle plate closes, the compressed air from the turbo is still in the charge pipes, if it's not realeased instantly, it will travel stop the turbo from spinning and cause it to spin backwards (compressor surge), you'll know when you hear comp. surge, it a loud fluttering noise. anyways, this limits the turbo's life, and you get really bad lag between gears also. a lot of people use the bov's off of the 1st gen. dsm's, known as the '1g dsm' bov, they are fairly cheap and work excellent. bov's can range from $30-$300
a few places to find a bov:
www.ebaymotors.com
www.dsmtrader.com
https://www.homemadeturbo.com/forum/index.php?board=4
your local junk yard
WASTEGATE- the wastegate (wg) is what controls how much boost the turbo pushes to your engine, it opens at a certain psi. and expels the rest of the exhaust gasses (that the turbo uses to spool) to hold it at whatever psi. it's set at. like mentioned if the 1st paragraph, most turbo's come with internal wg's, but if you choose to use an external wg (tial, deltagate, etc.), you have to have a flange to mount it on your manifold, and you have to use a 'block off' flange on the exhaust housing of the turbo where the opening for an internal wg is. wg's can range from $30-$300.
some places to find a wg:
www.ebaymotors.com
www.dsmtrader.com
https://www.homemadeturbo.com/forum/index.php?board=4
your local junk yard
CHARGE PIPING- charge piping is the piping that connects the turbo outlet to the intake manifold which the air travels through. if you're not running an intercooler, the pipe only has to go from the turbo outlet on the compressor housing, to the intake manifold and is very simple to run. if you're running an intercooler, the piping has to go from the turbo outlet to the intercooler inlet, then from the intercooler outlet, to the intake manifold. you can buy prefab kits for your car, but they will always need modification because unless you use the exact same manifold, turbo, and intercooler as someone else, you're pipes are going to be different because the placement of these components determines where the pipes go. most people just buy mandrel bends (usually 2 or 2.5") and cut them to fit and put them together themselves. *caution* this does require some creative thinking, please don't hurt yourself! if you're really ghetto, you can use pvc piping, radiator hoses, and or anything else that can withstand fair amounts of heat and pressure.
a few places to find mandrel bends:
www.jcwhitney.com
www.speedpartsrus.com
www.summitracing.com
or a local exhaust shop if you're lucky!
ENGINE MANAGEMENT- ok, you're going to need a way to deliver extra fuel to your car once it leaves vacuum and goes in to boost (more air = need more fuel obviously). there are many ways to go about this and i'm not going to go in to depth, this are requires you to SEARCH extnesively to find out how each works and what's best for your application, i'll will break it down with a 'short' summary of the most common methods.
fmu = a mechanical device that raises fuel pressure per amount of boost that it sees via a vacuum/boost source. very cheap, very unreliable, very primitive, no way to tune, very shitty. good for about 7 psi. 'safely'. not reccomended. price = $60-$100
(s/v)afc 'hack' = this is use in conjuntion with bigger injectors to deliver more fuel, you use the afc to control how much extra fuel the injectors will deliver. pretty expensive and not all that great, it advances timing and unless you use a timing retard device (which is more money spent) you have to manually retard timing at the distributor (dizzy) which causes you to lose bottom end power. a lot better than an fmu, but for the price, there are better alternatives. price = $175-$300 for afc, $40-$75 for 450cc injectors.
uberdata (obd1), turbo edit (obd0), crome (obd1) = programs are available to chip the stock honda ecu and use it as a fully tuneable system that can be compared to a stand alone system. these programs are used in conjunction with larger injectors for boosted applications. there are programs for obd0, obd1. to use an obd1 program on an obd2 vehicle, all you have to do is get an obd1 ecu (obd2 ecu's can't be chipped 'yet') and an obd2 to obd1 conversion harness. best bang for the buck by far! price = depending on your knowledge and resources chipping your ecu can cost $15-$100 and $40-$75 for 450cc injectors.
hodata, aem ems, and other stand alone systems = definitely the best way to go, but cost BIG dollars, if you have the money to spend on that stuff for your first turbo set up, you probably won't be reading this anyways.
information on engine management can be found here:
www.pgmfi.org
https://www.homemadeturbo.com/forum/...threadid=14497
http://www.ecimulti.org/uberdata/forum/
www.turboedit.org
https://www.homemadeturbo.com/forum/...threadid=14497
MISC.- miscelaneous items that you will need to complete your turbo kit are:
oil lines- you need an oil line kit that taps in to the back of your block to feed oil to the turbo and then drains back in to your oil pan. price = $75-$100
www.stealthmodeperfomance.com
boost gauge- you may choose to have other gauges as well, but a minimum of a boost gauge is highly reccomended to keep an eye on how much boost you're running. price = $25-$60
www.ebaymotors.com
vacuum line- you'll need plenty of vacuum line to run to all of the extra components (boost gauge, bov, wg) price = $3-$10
couplers and clamps- you will need these to connect your charge piping, you can order the expensive silicone couplers and 't' clamps if you would like, or you can use cut up radiator hose and cheap hose clamps from your local auto parts store. price = $20-$75
that's about it for the basics as of what you will need for a complete basic turbo kit. you still need to SEARCH (not ask question because anything you can think of to ask has already been answered 3 billion times, i promise) to find out how all of these things work together and how to boost your car safely and effectively. some good places to search/read for info. are:
https://www.homemadeturbo.com/forum/...;threadid=3921
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerosearch
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/turbo2.htm
so please, newbies, if you didn't get the answers you were looking for in this thread, or from any of the posted links after you SEARCHED, only then should you ask a newbish question, and be sure the first thing you mention at the beginnin of the thread is "i tried searching, but couldn't find what i was looking for", this shows us that you did at least try to find the answer on your own instead of expecting us to just type the same thing over and over every day when we probably already answered your same question a couple hours ago
if anyone has any other USEFUL information or links to add to this, please do! useless chat will be deleted from this thread.
thanks,
your mom
TURBO- ok, lets start with the basics, you're going to need 1 turbo charger (unless you're whitey, then you need 2)! the turbo is one item in itself, it doesn't include the manifold! usually they come with an internal wastegate already so you don't have to buy a wastegate unless a) your turbo didn't come with one or b) you would rather use an external wg. a lot of common turbo's are t3's off of volvo's, saab's, old turbo mustangs and thunderbirds, and also all turbo's off of dsm's are pretty common for home made set ups. good places to find a used turbo are:
www.ebaymotors.com
https://www.homemadeturbo.com/forum/index.php?board=4
www.dsmtrader.com
your local junk yard
used turbo's can range anywhere from about 80 bucks up to around 200 bucks or more. there are many different sizes, trims, a/r's etc. when looking for a turbo, which turbo is best for your application IS UP TO YOU TO FIND OUT BY 'SEARCHING!'.
MANIFOLD- the manifold is the thing that actually bolts to your head where your stock manifold/header was and is what your turbo is connected to.
B series manifolds
The Manifold is one of the key parts to a custom turbokit. Lots of companys are making custom tubular and log manifolds for the import market. It's deciding which one you want. Lots of different styles, some support AC, some are more of a Race design, and some are cheap cast designs. Below is Pics for B-series Turbo Manifolds with the T3 Turbo flange (B16/B17/B18/B20 etc) Some have external wastegate flanges, some don't, some manifolds are cast Iron, some are stainless steel. These manifolds range from $150-$1200
d series manifolds
like the 'b' series, many companies make custom manifold for d series also, but d series guys have one other option also.......The "HF Manifold"
Everyone refers to it as the HF manifold but it came on other cars too. it came on the 88-91 CRX HF. it also came on a 88-91 Civic Std, they are hatchbacks with a 4 speed, vinal interior, and a black panel on the hatch that says 'Civic', (base model) Another car that has them is a 92-95 Civic CX/VX hatch. Newer cars have the precat style manifold like the HF manifolds. But they Pre-cat and manifold are 1 piece. You would have to chop off the cat inorder to use it. all you will need to use this as a turbo manifold is an 'adapter plate' which bolts to the manifold where the cat was and has a bolt pattern on the other side, the same as the turbo you choose to use, then you can just bolt the turbo to the manifold.
places to find manifolds and adapter plates:
www.bmcrace.com (manifolds, adapters, and flanges)
www.rank1racing.com
www.ebaymotors.com
https://www.homemadeturbo.com/forum/index.php?board=4
http://www.jgstools.com/turbo/index2.html
and many more places, just SEARCH
INTERCOOLER- an intercooler is not neccessary, but is highly reccomended, it cools the air coming from the turbo that goes in to your engine, cooler air equals less chance of detonation (not good) and you can run more boost safely. there are side mount intercoolers (smic) that people ususally tuck up under their wheel well, and there are front mount inter coolers (fmic) that go up front behind your bumper cover. which ever you want is up to you, obviously a frount mount is a little more effective since it gets more air flow, but an smic does a pretty good job also as long as you don't plan on running really high amounts of boost. intercoolers can range from $30-$1000
a few good places to get intercoolers:
www.speedpartsrus.com
www.johnnyracecar.com
www.dsmtrader.com
www.ebaymotors.com
https://www.homemadeturbo.com/forum/index.php?board=4
your local junk yard
BLOW OFF VALVE (bov)- a 'bov' is what give you that 'cool' sound you hear when you're changing gears, basically, what it's doing is releasing pressure out of the charge pipes. when you let your foot off the gas and the throttle plate closes, the compressed air from the turbo is still in the charge pipes, if it's not realeased instantly, it will travel stop the turbo from spinning and cause it to spin backwards (compressor surge), you'll know when you hear comp. surge, it a loud fluttering noise. anyways, this limits the turbo's life, and you get really bad lag between gears also. a lot of people use the bov's off of the 1st gen. dsm's, known as the '1g dsm' bov, they are fairly cheap and work excellent. bov's can range from $30-$300
a few places to find a bov:
www.ebaymotors.com
www.dsmtrader.com
https://www.homemadeturbo.com/forum/index.php?board=4
your local junk yard
WASTEGATE- the wastegate (wg) is what controls how much boost the turbo pushes to your engine, it opens at a certain psi. and expels the rest of the exhaust gasses (that the turbo uses to spool) to hold it at whatever psi. it's set at. like mentioned if the 1st paragraph, most turbo's come with internal wg's, but if you choose to use an external wg (tial, deltagate, etc.), you have to have a flange to mount it on your manifold, and you have to use a 'block off' flange on the exhaust housing of the turbo where the opening for an internal wg is. wg's can range from $30-$300.
some places to find a wg:
www.ebaymotors.com
www.dsmtrader.com
https://www.homemadeturbo.com/forum/index.php?board=4
your local junk yard
CHARGE PIPING- charge piping is the piping that connects the turbo outlet to the intake manifold which the air travels through. if you're not running an intercooler, the pipe only has to go from the turbo outlet on the compressor housing, to the intake manifold and is very simple to run. if you're running an intercooler, the piping has to go from the turbo outlet to the intercooler inlet, then from the intercooler outlet, to the intake manifold. you can buy prefab kits for your car, but they will always need modification because unless you use the exact same manifold, turbo, and intercooler as someone else, you're pipes are going to be different because the placement of these components determines where the pipes go. most people just buy mandrel bends (usually 2 or 2.5") and cut them to fit and put them together themselves. *caution* this does require some creative thinking, please don't hurt yourself! if you're really ghetto, you can use pvc piping, radiator hoses, and or anything else that can withstand fair amounts of heat and pressure.
a few places to find mandrel bends:
www.jcwhitney.com
www.speedpartsrus.com
www.summitracing.com
or a local exhaust shop if you're lucky!
ENGINE MANAGEMENT- ok, you're going to need a way to deliver extra fuel to your car once it leaves vacuum and goes in to boost (more air = need more fuel obviously). there are many ways to go about this and i'm not going to go in to depth, this are requires you to SEARCH extnesively to find out how each works and what's best for your application, i'll will break it down with a 'short' summary of the most common methods.
fmu = a mechanical device that raises fuel pressure per amount of boost that it sees via a vacuum/boost source. very cheap, very unreliable, very primitive, no way to tune, very shitty. good for about 7 psi. 'safely'. not reccomended. price = $60-$100
(s/v)afc 'hack' = this is use in conjuntion with bigger injectors to deliver more fuel, you use the afc to control how much extra fuel the injectors will deliver. pretty expensive and not all that great, it advances timing and unless you use a timing retard device (which is more money spent) you have to manually retard timing at the distributor (dizzy) which causes you to lose bottom end power. a lot better than an fmu, but for the price, there are better alternatives. price = $175-$300 for afc, $40-$75 for 450cc injectors.
uberdata (obd1), turbo edit (obd0), crome (obd1) = programs are available to chip the stock honda ecu and use it as a fully tuneable system that can be compared to a stand alone system. these programs are used in conjunction with larger injectors for boosted applications. there are programs for obd0, obd1. to use an obd1 program on an obd2 vehicle, all you have to do is get an obd1 ecu (obd2 ecu's can't be chipped 'yet') and an obd2 to obd1 conversion harness. best bang for the buck by far! price = depending on your knowledge and resources chipping your ecu can cost $15-$100 and $40-$75 for 450cc injectors.
hodata, aem ems, and other stand alone systems = definitely the best way to go, but cost BIG dollars, if you have the money to spend on that stuff for your first turbo set up, you probably won't be reading this anyways.
information on engine management can be found here:
www.pgmfi.org
https://www.homemadeturbo.com/forum/...threadid=14497
http://www.ecimulti.org/uberdata/forum/
www.turboedit.org
https://www.homemadeturbo.com/forum/...threadid=14497
MISC.- miscelaneous items that you will need to complete your turbo kit are:
oil lines- you need an oil line kit that taps in to the back of your block to feed oil to the turbo and then drains back in to your oil pan. price = $75-$100
www.stealthmodeperfomance.com
boost gauge- you may choose to have other gauges as well, but a minimum of a boost gauge is highly reccomended to keep an eye on how much boost you're running. price = $25-$60
www.ebaymotors.com
vacuum line- you'll need plenty of vacuum line to run to all of the extra components (boost gauge, bov, wg) price = $3-$10
couplers and clamps- you will need these to connect your charge piping, you can order the expensive silicone couplers and 't' clamps if you would like, or you can use cut up radiator hose and cheap hose clamps from your local auto parts store. price = $20-$75
that's about it for the basics as of what you will need for a complete basic turbo kit. you still need to SEARCH (not ask question because anything you can think of to ask has already been answered 3 billion times, i promise) to find out how all of these things work together and how to boost your car safely and effectively. some good places to search/read for info. are:
https://www.homemadeturbo.com/forum/...;threadid=3921
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerosearch
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/turbo2.htm
so please, newbies, if you didn't get the answers you were looking for in this thread, or from any of the posted links after you SEARCHED, only then should you ask a newbish question, and be sure the first thing you mention at the beginnin of the thread is "i tried searching, but couldn't find what i was looking for", this shows us that you did at least try to find the answer on your own instead of expecting us to just type the same thing over and over every day when we probably already answered your same question a couple hours ago
if anyone has any other USEFUL information or links to add to this, please do! useless chat will be deleted from this thread.
thanks,
your mom
09-04-2007, 08:18 PM
#18
0.0 BAR
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1
Re: NOOBS! *LOOK HERE IF YOU WANT TO BUILD A TURBO KIT!* All info+stock WG settings
ey NOOB i got a 95 chevy tahoe with a tbi(carburator)..i rather turbocharge it then to supercharge it..eventhough i have a carb i could still put a turbo right?
09-28-2007, 09:32 PM
#20
0.0 BAR
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 0
Re: NOOBS! *LOOK HERE IF YOU WANT TO BUILD A TURBO KIT!* All info+stock WG setti
