New to site, cheep cheep turbo build!
 

Heres is my 1991 camaro 3.1L V6, For the last few weeks ive been fabing up the exhaust and such.

The mods on the car are 260 grind delta cam, P+P heads, and Ive been tuning/burning chips/datalogging. I now will be running a $59 mask/bin on this car, 3 bar map sensor. 30lbs LC2 injectors.

This turbo is small and i know that, a/r hotside .49 -a/r cold side .48 So as ive reasearched out this turbo can only substain 250Hp max with supporting mods(fuel/Innercooler/exc).

Here are some pics and what i want to accomplish is to have a little more peppy car. This 3.1L 60* has forged internals from the factory, except pistons. It also only made a measly 140Hp stock, I might be making 155Hp crank, with the cam, heads and such. So id like to get it up in the 200=230Hp crank Hp area, with a great tune.

Oh yea, i know my ex. clearence is questionable but still has 4 inches when on flat ground, This is not my daily driver, thankfully!!

Well i broke down and got a larger turbo, wastegate, and both flanges for 187 bucks shipped to my house.. heres the turbo
http://www.ebay.com/itm/250648441724...84.m1439.l2649

I also got the oil line stuff... 70 bucks and it will be the right way to run the lines

I though I would list what ive spent so far and what the total cost of all this would be if anyone thought of doing such a task. Project89 did a few awsome write ups that are stickys(thirdgen.org)..But htough Id just add what all I got.



Turbo. $118 shipped t3/t4 hybrid

Blow off valve. $29 shipped JDM cnc

Wastgate. $37 shipped 38mm external w/8psi spring

3 Bar Maps sensor. $40 shipped

2 silicon reducers. $17 shipped 4/ply

All materials for oil lines. $85 shipped

2 Turbo exhaust flanges. $32 shipped

Innercooler. $25 shipped Volvo 740

2 1/2 '' piping for charge pipe and exhaust. $40

Misc. Items such as 90* bends, RTV, t-fittings, argon/co2. welder wire, colder plugs $120



This list above is roughly $545, these are the items i have already.



I still need to buy a WB o2 sensor kit-est $160

30lbs Injectors-pending to buy from TGO member??

Boost gauge. $25

Boost controler. $15



These items above that I do not have are roughly $230



Heres what All i have and what needs to be purchased. Actually is quite alot but cheeper then I though...I was thinking closer to $1,000 but i did skimp on a larger innercooler.



So for about $675 dollars I have the needed items, and have been doing quite well on spending a little here and there so I dont go completly broke. Ebay is my best friend as, I know there is better stuff out there, but those items are just what I need at a price that I can afford.



I already had the tuning equiptment, chips, burner, and such... thankfully!

should be fun. i had a 90 firebird with the same motor back in the mid 90's. no power at all. wish i had done this to it back in the day but aftermarket turbo supplies were not very plentiful back then. my suggestion to you is since its an older car and emissions isnt a concern i would put a standalone computer on it. a good affordable stand alone ecm is the megasquirt 2 or the newer megasquirt 3 that is sequential injection.

I thought of the M.S route but i got the burner/chip/adapter, laptop, ALDL and such cheep. And the $59 mask for the ECU/M is really easy to understand. A friend has the mega.sq on his turbo V6 thirdgen camaro, and wow does it run.

Im excited to see how this turns out once I get it tuned and such.

should be a big difference. 10 psi boost should give you at least 275-300hp at the crank with a proper tune. thats more hp than the tpi v8 made. more power than a v8 and lighter. i think it will be a blast to drive.

Yea it definitly will be a blast, Im hoping for arround 250-270Hp at the crank, the injectors ive got are only 30lbs ones, so about 270hp is at 85% duty cycle.

Im sure its gonna take some time for me to tune it. As im scared of spark knock(detination):mad: But hopefully within a few weeks of tuning i can run the 8psi that the external wastegate is set at and have some confidence, and know its done right.

So hopefully before spring ill have here up and running with a good tune....

awesome looking forward to some pics and test video's. i would definitely put at least 40# injectors in there just for insurance. 30# injectors will be at the danger point at 250hp. 40#'s will give you that extra insurance even though you wont need that much fuel.

Well im stuck with 30#'s since i got these off a friend. There rebuild LC2's off a grand national.

My stockers were 15lbs..LOL. I cant afford bigger ones for now. But 8psi= roughly 80Hp So saying i have 155Hp at the crank with the mods now, i could then have 235Hp, I know thats a really rough shot in the dark but it should be somewhat close once its tuned right.

30's will support240HP@80%d.c 270Hp@90% d.c, and 300Hp @100% d.c

Formula(6x30x.80/.6) For 80% duty cycle=240Hp So thats very safe for 100Hp more then my stock engine made. Stock 3.1L made 140Ho/180tq

I only plan on boosting the original waste gate pressure for awhile(8psi) This engine only has mabey 155Hp in its form as of now. So I think those injectors will keep me happy till i can upgrade to 42lbs's.

Some parts came today(oil fittings, oil lines) But the turbo, innercooler, flanges will be here on friday. So ill be taking alot of pics while i work on it friday night. Ill be sure to post them up!!

looking forward to pics........... :)

Tommorow night there will be pics! Of the new parts and progress I made. Ill have all night tommorow free to play in the shop!;)

Sorry i didnt have time to make every pic smaller since ya can copy and paste them but here is 2 videos, basically the same but one got cut short. enjoy and let me know what you think!!!!!!!!

Has anyone check my vids out?? Does it look like crap so far or ok?? Its still somewhat of a cheep build since ive been frugal on the exhaust piping, mandral stuff is $$$ and Im not looking for 500Hp so what I have will do.

good job. makes me miss my 90 firebird.

Heres some more progress video. Check them out. There is 2 because the camera died on the 1st vid, so sorry if im redundant. Total cost 620 bucks...so it is def, classed as a somewhat cheep build.


Let me know what ya think. There still needs to be some cleaning up and such, but its basically done, as for the physical stuff..

Did start up the car.. alot of tuning to do but its a start...

Here are a video of me being stupid and fulling the garage and car with smoke. The idle tables are ok and the boost tables are decent. I havent got to drive it as it snowed out but i made sure that I had afr's in the 11's and no spark knock. I started with a good base BIN file for tuning a turbo V6.

Im woundering if the blow off valve isnt working right as the comp surges when i let off the throttle. I need to adjust it more!

awesome. makes me want to buy my firebird back. did you figure out what was smoking? sounded sweet when she spooled.....
your bov spring maybe too heavy. the bov should be adjusted to just higher than idle vacuum. if its not adjustable then you need to swap out the spring for a lighter one.

Yes i have a adjustable BOV and need to change that setting forsure!
All that smoke was from me spinning the tires. Its posi so it fills the garage up fast with smoke.....I freaked when i first saw the smoke till I looked behind me and saw the cloud and wow did it smell like a huge burnout pit.

It truley amazes me that this turbo set up has been ok thus far. The tuning isnt bad either at idle, and i need the snow to go away ASAP so i can tune a better part throttle and WOT tune.

Great job! Keep coming videos.
Take care about the oil pressure of that turbo, keep it between 15-20 psi to avoid gasket blow.

i just looked at the video again. is the afr at idle 11:1? if it is you need to do more tweaking to get it to 14.7:1

Yes that is the AFR.. stinking rich. I tuned it today to 12.5AFR at idle. I need to play with the $59 mask some more as its hard to get it up to 14 or so without it hunting at idle.

I took it for a small datalog today. Has 12AFR's while just putting down the road. Shifts nice and runs very smooth. Once i attempted to spool up the boost a little i detected 2* of spark retard under 50% throttle so i quickly let off the gas, then in a minuet i just gave it about 25% throttle, and at 3psi of boost there is no knock and afr of 11.2-11.5 which is what im wanting in boost conditions. So I need alot of tuning and hopefully i can get that $59 mask tuned better at idle, as my plugs are black as can be conferming that the AFR is way bad at idle.

yeah. those chip burning tuners are very hard and time consuming to tune. this is why i recommended the megasquirt 2 or 3 controller. i like it because it has a built in 2.5 bar map sensor, you can tune on the fly and it also semi self tunes.

Well tuned for a good hour and this is what it produced.

1st pull 62% throttle 4.48psi of boost
2nd pull 52% throttle 4.14psi of boost.

Still needs fuel to drop boost to about a flat 12:1 afr but im definitly getting the hang of the tuning now.

Let me know what ya think!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9nL-...ature=youtu.be

Got the BOV to work now.. my compressor is thanking me!!!

Newest video.. enjoy!

you really need a load on the wheels to make sure. you should hear a very loud whoosh when the bov vents.

cool vid. get that tune dialed in so you can give it full throttle.

did you change out your plugs to colder ones? a rich condition will eliminate detonation/spark knock. i assume your running it with 93 octane?

it appears to be running damn good. i love that whistle. i dont hear the bov. congrats on the tune. 2 hours worth of tuning is nothing. a tuning setion can take anywhere from 10-20 hours by a professional and cost 1000.00 or more.

Yea I got the BOV working good now. No surging on the comp anymore.

I do have colder plugs and 93 in the tank which helps. Total timing under boost ranges from 16-12* of timing from 8.5psi down to the bottom. Im gonna play with those SA tables a bit but im definitly happy that Im on my way!!

I got the AFR at idle at 14 for now. $59 is a pain to get to idle with high AFR's and not want to hunt.

I did get on it hard the other day WOT with 8.5psi of boost, didnt video tape it but recorded as always on tunerpro. Very little knock at all <.5* of retard for only a short moment, and thats after a 20 minuet cruse. Still needs a little tweaking exspecialy when it gets warmer out, but for crusing arround Ive got the AFR's at a steady 15 or so without boost, or a load. So decent MPG considering...

12-16 degrees timing under boost doesnt sound right. seems a bit too retarded. usually timing under boost is ~ 20-25 degrees total timing. before you mess with the timing tables you should get the fuel table correct first. as you get up in rpm and boost then you will need to monitor both to prevent lean detonation and/or spark detonation. with 8.5psi boost and 93 octane you shouldnt have to retard the timing too much off of stock timing. maybe 1 degree as a safety precaution.

Well as of today ive got the timing tables a little higher. 18* max at 5.5psi, thats what i was pushing in PSI today as my sileniod controler will be here by friday I hope. I hate the manual controler and its crap so I just let the wastegate do its majic.
I know timing is conservitve..afrs are now great solid 11.5-12.0 in all boost runs up to 5.5 psi I ran today, car definitly picked up alot of speed with me adding 2-4* of timing in the tables. No spark knock. So when its nice again and i have the new controler ill be able to work on the timing table, then the fuel table, then rince and repeat till I get it right. Im aiming for getting 10psi somewhat tuned well(conservitive) by the end of april so when I go to the race track I can have a good base tune that I know will be safe on the motor. The nice thing about this controler is that I can tune for sepertate chip ...6psi for the street and another for 10psi at the track or whatever I decide on., and the only thing I have to do is insert the chip(tune) I want and them Im done. Of course when it gets warm out, ill have to do all this again..LOL Its fun though and ive came along ways in my tune in the last 2 weeks of (very little) free time.

Check this video out. 11.32 psi, good afr, no knock, and 0-95 in about 15 seconds @ 88% throttle(tps).. Im thinking im on my way to a 14 or 13 second pass if my drivetrain doesnt give.

Let me know what ya think??? I remember this car did 0-100 in like 28 seconds before(when it was stock)..LOL If i can find that video ill put it up here.

much better. congrats.....

Thanks man, sure cant wait to get to the race track and see what its really capible of. 14's im hoping...

Heres a video I made up a few weeks ago, ive made alot of progress on the tuning since the clips were recorded in this video. Please let me know if all the audio works right. Thanks!!!

If that doesnt work right and you really wana watch its heres the file to load on a media player of anysorts.
http://www.mediafire.com/?xds8mccqcmzwrn5

Was goofing around today.. so dont laugh to much at this short onboard video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TI_i...ature=youtu.be

Ok heres some numbers from it and once the video gets done uploading ill link it up on here. I got a new camera and I hate it!! I forgot that it recorded the video in hi-def. So its taking forever to upload.

Heres the #'s

These are off the datalog...
0-60Mph 6.27 seconds
0-70Mph 7.89 seconds
0-80Mph 9.88 seconds
0-90Mph 12.40 seconds
0-95Mph 13.87 seconds
0-99Mph 15.09 seconds



Gtech said these numbers....
0-60 6.25 seconds
1/4 mile 14.79@99.3 Mph.



Sorry about the glare in the video, and youll see that on that start i literly just let off the brake and floored it so thats a horrible launch in my mind..too forever to spool up. But april 14 marks the first day at the track so I can see then how well the car will go..Hopefully its not slower then a high 14's at the track...

Heres the video that links to those numbers.. dont laugh now! LOL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOks7...ature=youtu.be

respectible numbers for a small engine in a heavy car. this thread has made me out on the lookout for a 5.0 manual trans am or rs camaro...

Cars really light considering. 3050 LBS without me in the car. If you go for a 305 dont get a TBI!! Personally I would get get a 305/350TPI.

I actaully beat those RSs camaros with a 305TBI regulary at the race track with just a cam, ported heads and a few other little things. They run 16's stock which in my mind is embarrasing for a V8 camaro, at least I had a excuse...I had only 191 cubic inches:)