Need help with atv turbo project.
 

Whats up guys, I have a ATV turbo project Im working on, the turbo is a t3/t4 hybrid I got from ebay, now for my issues and progress.

Progress: everything is mounted and working.

Issues: I am having a hard time getting it dialed in, it starts fine runs good, but after 1/2throttle it just pops and backfires and sometimes stalls.

What I got: 2001 400ex atv, t3/t4 turbo, mounted with oil lines, charge pipe is straight from turbo to carb "for now", carb vents have been pressurized with turbo. no intercooler, no air plennum yet.

I built a air plennum/ charge box whatever you wanna call it, havent installed yet?

My plug is still white and shows possible slight detonation, even with heavy jetting, could this be causing my backfire/poping?

Will a air plennum help the palpitations in the air and possibly solve the problem? or should I need to retard the timing a bit? or both?

Im very very new at turbos and dont know a whole lot if anything...lol.

It deffinetly is getting more power and working up to the 1/2 throttle point, then falls flat on its face.

What could be going wrong? I need some expert advice and this site has alot of good stuff, but im still stuck at the moment.

Any help is greatly appreciated, thanks for your time.

id think that turbo would be to big and what are you using for fuel management

Yeah im worried about the turbo size, others have used similar turbos atleast from what I thought anyway....most used a k03, I thought they were similar but like I said I dont know turbos...lol.

Fuel management, I tried using fuel pumps but they just overflow everything with gas, Ive heard of other fuel devices that pump more fuel with boost, I thought I had that covered with a pressurized carb but....its not working, I dont know what to look for when it comes to fuel management, I guess I would need something small enough for a 400cc carberated engine....dont know where to start?

find a good ihi ford probe turbo there small and idk if i can post websites but you should look into this
TURBOCHARGER TURBO SMALL ATV MOTORCYCLE BIKE TD03 USED: eBay Motors (item 130400896163 end time Jun-20-10 21:28:39 PDT) its made for atvs and small stuff

Yeah, a couple guys said the ihi was to small? Here's some vids of what Im trying to accomplish.

YouTube - Projet 400ex-t

YouTube - Video of my turbocharged honda 400ex

here is a thread with the same type of quad with a turbo its a tdo4 thats what my turbo says on it.

http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthre...ghlight=twinty

ATV Riders Forum - the turbocharged 400ex everyone wants to see

I drag race so it compelled me to go faster, right now I run 8.83 in the 1/8th mile, trying to get in the 7s thats why I want this turbo to work.

hope the links worked, hope it will help you guys help me. Thanks for showing interest.

the problem with boosting a carb'd engine is that when the carb sees boost the carb doesnt flow any fuel. the float bowl is being pressureized and the venturi is being pressured. if float bowl pressure equals venturi pressure there will be no fuel flow causing engine to run lean. this will cause detonation and backfiring and will kill the engine quick.

the fix for this is to add a fuel pump and a boost reference fuel pressure regulator. set the fuel pressure regulator at the stock setting. carbs are usually 5 psi or less. the carb will run at 5 psi under non boost operation. when the engine starts to boost, the fuel pressure will rise. you want the fuel pressure to be higher than boost pressure to allow fuel to flow from the bowl to the venturi. if fuel pressure is 10 psi under 5 lbs of boost then the float bowl will be pressurized at 5 psi causing fuel to be pushed out into the venturi.

tuning boosted carb'd engines is very difficult. its a trial and error method. start off super rich and lean it out to get the desired 11-11.5:1 afr because lean conditions can take out a motor very quickly....

gl with build

Thanks thats good info, any advice on a good regulator, exactly what type should I be looking for?

Found a bunch on ebay, some are inexpensive? but will an inexpensive one be ok, or is it best to go with a descent name brand? What do you guys usually get for a situation like this? What is a descent brand?....

ive used many of the cheaper ones with no problems. stick with the ones that are ~75.00 and make sure they cant be adjusted low enough for use with a carb. also make sure they raise pressure with boost.

An IHI RHF3 or RHB3 would still be a little big IMHO. They're found on suzuki swifts. Back in the day when i used to design Argo's we were going to use it to turbo a 770cc kohler for a high altitude climb.

perfect size turbo would be the kkk turbo used in the audi/vw 1.8 turbo cars. i used one on my gsxr 600 turbo bike and it worked great. very small turbo. quick spool. garrett GT12 would be perfect if you have extra money to play with.

I'm doing this same thing only using an EFI 440cc quad. I've read somewhere that with a single cylinder motor that your intake size volume has to displace at least the size of the motor, I don't know if this is true or not?
The motor I'm doing is DOHC and I read that 105 to 107 intake and 104 to 106 exhaust is a good cam timing for a boosted motor does this sounds about right?
Also one of my other issues is oiling. My motor has about 3psi at idle and about 7 to 9psi max at rpms. I'm not sure how many GPM it pumps. The motor red-lines at 11,800 but I think I'm going to cut it back to 10,500. How do I know whats going to be enough oil and whats going to be to much oil. Ppl tell me you have to play with it but I have no Idea what I'm looking for, I'm sure there has to be some ball park somewhere or something to go by?
dale1983 I'm not trying to jack your thread, I did follow your build over on riders.

No problem...I dont consider that thread jacking...we are on the same subject here...all and any info is helpful.

the intake size and motor displacement thing, is the air plenum I was talking about, I know a xr650 with a turbo used a air plenum that was made to hold 1 gallon of water....look it up, xr650 turbo on you tube, to see what I mean....also on the vids I posted and links to builds on riders you can see the air plenum on the black 400ex....big silver box.

Whether or not we need it ive yet to discover, I think that fuel regulator is all i need to make it work, if that doesnt help or helps a lil Im gonna put the plenum on and see where it gets me.....good luck with your build keep me posted.

when are you going to post pics? :)

heres what my atv looks like..and a link to my build on another website...keep in mind this is all mock up till I get it working correctly...lol.

Attachment 5677

bulid thread...

ATV Riders Forum - 400ex going turbo....on a budget

Tried to make it bigger...lol.

Attachment 5676

thats a stock atv. do u have pics of it turbo'd?

its in the build thread in the post above the picture....the blue writing that says atv riders forum 400ex going turbo, just click on it...lol.

Ill post pics here any way...

Attachment 5672

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http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/a...th_urbo002.jpg

http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/a...th_urbo001.jpg

nice. i dont know if that motor is going to spin that turbo enough to boost especially with the turbo far away from the engine. is there no room to fit it at the head?

I went with a AISIN turbo. Which should be about the equivalent of a Garrett GT1241. Rated for up to 200hp and I think 600cc? It's funny I'm going to be about 12" to 15" from the head and about 2-1/2 to 3' from the intake.

So im having trouble finding a good regulator for my application, thats the only thing holding me back, I need a fuel regulator that works off boost for a carbd engine, I need to be able to set it so it doesnt overflow my carb at idle but run fuel with boost at rpm.

Any suggestions on the regulator?

this is one site i found.

Sx Performance Fuel Pressure Regulators

heres some good reading. See if it works if not i'll copy and past it. UBB Message - Planet Sand

I also wanted to ask busa4 and dale1983 or anyone else if you guys have ever checked the oil psi on your motors? Or what your feeding the turbo? Ppl tell me you need 30psi but I've never heard or a roll/ball bearing motor ever really getting over 10psi.

journal bearings need a 0.060" oil feed orifice. ball bearing need a 0.030" oil feed orifice. 30psi to any turbo will blow seals and take away much need oil pressure to your engine. these restrictors should put the oil pressure at 10psi or lower. not much is needed for ball bearings.

Have you ever cheaked the oil psi your putting to them? The turbo I have is journal bearing. My bike has 3-4 psi at idle and 7-9 at rev. I'm kinda worried about GPM also,you have any idea what that should be?

The only reason why I didnt use my ATVs oil system is that it will work slightly harder, and if for any reason it were to fail because of the extra load, you wont know till your motor blows up.

So I made a secondary oil system, but im having trouble finding a decent oil pump for it, most have to much pressure or not enough at all, but im getting closer to finding a happy medium. Most people say its fine using the ATVs pump, I was worried about it, so I went another route.

Got any pics of your quads progress?

I don't have any pics. To be honest I don't know if I'll ever post some. This is such an experiential set up that I'm doing it as cheep as i can,so it looks really bad. I want to prove/make sure its going to work before spending the time to make it look clean.
I thought the turbo I have was equivalent to the gt12. But after looking at the gt12 online and mine,mines even smaller. I have this gut feeling this turbo is going to be to small,so I'm keeping that in mind with the quality of my work man ship.
I did run oil to the turbo from the motor. Tho the turbo isn't plumped into the exhaust. I was just holding the turbo in my had pumping the oil back into the frame. I have a gauge on it and no restrictor and had no noticeable drop in psi,but really didn't have that much coming out of the turbo,almost like it couldn't pump oil threw the turbo.
So I made up 2 orifices,one .060 and one .080. I by passed the turbo and just dumped it into the frame. The difference between the two weren't even noticeable. So with the .080 I went from 3-4psi to 2.5-2 psi at idle and at rev went from 7-9 psi to 6-7 psi.

where did you tap the oil pressure from? the head is the last to recieve oil pressure so by the time the oil pressure gets to the head its lower than the output of the pump.

I taped right into the oil filter housing. Keep in mind I already have sorta a modified oil pump. The psi I'm getting with the .080 orifice is still a 1 or 2 lbs better then a stock oil pump. So at this point I'm not worried about starving the motor of oil.

this might help you with a pump Electric Oil Feed and Scavenge Pumps

did you tap into the correct oil pump? there are two pumps. one pump supplies the oil tank and the other pump supplies the oil from the tank into the engine. that oil pressure seems a bit on the low side.

Yes I did. The scavenger pump returns on the other side of the motor.

ok good. my yfz450 has the pumps back to back on the same shaft.

mine only has the one pump in the motor, thats why I was skeptical, about using it.

instead, I used a scavenge pump, a oil cooler, with a seperate oil tank, for my secondary oil system.

Im using the scavenge pump, to pump the oil to the turbo, then drains back into the tank, I might switch it to pull oil from the tank, to the turbo then to the pump, back to the tank.

the way it is now it has to much pressure, it blows the lines off when its on...lol

I think switching it will work better?

post your pics any class900, mine looks jaked up also and I posted mine....lol.

Its really easy for me to plug into the scavenger pump.But the problem is the Cdale is a dry sump,so it also pumps a lot of air. On top of that its not filtered oil so.

Guys with a 400 cc Honda there is no such thing as too small a turbo,make sure that the turbo is mounted as close to the head as possible or you will lose too much heat in the pipework dropping the turbo's efficiency leading to a laggy unresponsive setup that will be almost impossible to tune properly,Our Team Rocket factory Explosive racing Turbo 700 raptor uses a garret gt 2560 hybrid modified from a Sanyong Musso Turbo Diesel 4WD but it runs methanol an measures 804cc with a full Stand alone EFi system.
It also cleaned up at the 2009 Four Stroke Association 4 stroke wars at Glammis taking outright king of the hill ,650 power adder and stock chassis classes ran 11 passes back to back you guys tried to break it and many there considered it dirty tricks thanks to all those who gave us Nitrous bottles to cool the Inlet system between passes it hung together and made our trip from Aus worth while, we will be back.
Cheers Coxy

Thanks Coxy. I had also heard with a single cylinder that the intake volume has to displace at least the same displacement as the motor cc?

Heres so info for the Carb guys. DIY turbo bike (and car) basic questions

I wanted to give this a bump and see how your build is going?