ID: t3-60 vs T3 "super 60" questions
 

I'm shopping for a t3 "super 60" turbo and I'm running across a bunch of idiots who either don't know what they're selling or are intentionally misrepresenting what they've got.

I'm seeing SVO / Thunderbird turbo coupe turbos being advertised as t3 "super 60" when I know that Ford never put these turbos on those vehicles.

My question is this:

1) Is it possible to ID a "super 60" from a t3-60 without disassembly and inspection? Flow maps indicate a slight difference on the compressor side.

2) Does the "super 60" always come with a 360 thrust bearing?

Re: ID: t3-60 vs T3 "super 60" questions
 

i could be wrog but this is what ive noticed form people seeling turbo's
super 60 = 60/48 ar's 60 trim
t3 60 = 60/63 60 trim


not for sure on the trim though, and this is just what ive seen alot of people go by i doubt its correct, everyone around here refers to a 60/48 as a super 60 :-\

Re: ID: t3-60 vs T3 "super 60" questions
 

Still looking for a way to visually tell the difference?
Any input as to if the "super 60" is always 360 thrust?

There seem to be .42/.48 "super 60s" also that advertise the same CFM support:
http://www.spoolinperformance.com/ga...er60-p-33.html

Re: ID: t3-60 vs T3 "super 60" questions
 

this is a real super60(my old turbo, dam i miss it!!)
http://s16v.com/pix/2004/03-30/P3300090-8.jpg

this is a 48-63/60(sorry huge pIC)I currently run this and its not super anything
but everyone calls it a super60, even me sometimes. Two completely different turbos performance wise.
a real super runs about 400-600 bux and the one below under 300(new)
http://www.team-integra.net/sections...9dbf442974.jpg

oh and the only super60 available under that name of super60 are under the turbonetics name not garrett.(i may be wrong so prove me otherwise)

Re: ID: t3-60 vs T3 "super 60" questions
 

Where can you buy a new t3 63/60 for under $300 new?
Turbonetics certainly does make them, but I thought spoolin' was a very legitimate vendor:
There seem to be .42/.48 "super 60s" also that advertise the same CFM support:
http://www.spoolinperformance.com/ga...er60-p-33.html

MJM (not MJMs) is saying that they've got one also - .48 or .58 hot side, .60 compressor, "350" degree thrust.

Seems the inducer is slightly different: 1.9 vs 1.83 on the compressor... It's going to be hard to tell visually if that's the only difference.

People wonder why I like receipts and ask so many questions...

Re: ID: t3-60 vs T3 "super 60" questions
 

I'm pretty sure that the "super 60" refers to the turbo having not only a .63 ar exhaust housing, but a true 60 trim compressor (not a .60 ar...that number is not the trim contrary to many people's claims). I had the same .48/.60 garrett turbo pictured above, and after measuring out the compressor wheel, it's only a 50 trim at max.

Re: ID: t3-60 vs T3 "super 60" questions
 

the exhaust a/r doesnt make it a super. i had a 48/60 a/r super60 straight from turbonetics. its named after the compressor wheel/housing. i wish now i wouldve measured the wheel

Re: ID: t3-60 vs T3 "super 60" questions
 

I think you were close. There is a t3 "60 trim" that isn't the super 60:
http://www.22returbo.net/compressormaps/med/t3-60.jpg

The "super 60" is actually a slightly larger trim, based on the inducer size that I mentioned above.. Something like 63 trim. As such, it's a very minor change over the 60 trim t3, but it does flow a little better in terms of CFM.

http://www.22returbo.net/compressormaps/med/t3-s60.jpg

Basically I think I've learned that it's going to be impossible to tell them apart visually, AR doesn't matter, and that you'd have to take the compressor cover off to be sure and measure with a caliper.

The only remaining question is: does a "super 60" generally indicate a 360 thrust bearing?


Looking at parts, the super 60 turbine is significantly more expensive. A 360 thrust would be added expense also - I suppose these explain the cost difference... Compressor maps indicate that there isn't a lot of difference.

Re: ID: t3-60 vs T3 "super 60" questions
 

you can tell. the wheel is at least visually about 1/4" larger on both side. (guesstimate) stock 60trim wheels are weaklings

Re: ID: t3-60 vs T3 "super 60" questions
 

Not according to the specs on the compressor wheels I'm finding.

Super 60: 1.90 / 2.367
60 trim t3: 1.830 / 2.2367

We're talking .07 of an inch on the inducer... Your eyes are better than mine.

Re: ID: t3-60 vs T3 "super 60" questions
 

That's not much of a difference at all. I think after seeing what you do with your setups though you might want the .63 exhaust housing. The .48 housing will tend to make a decent bit more backpressure, although it's spool time is a decent bit faster.

Re: ID: t3-60 vs T3 "super 60" questions
 

That's a valid point.. It's hard to find dyno graphs of the impact of different housing ARs on various vehicles.
It looks like a t3-60 or t3-super 60 are both decent choices for my application. I'm more concerned with power under the curve on this truck than peak power... Investigating a few sources for the t3 60/super 60.. I'm not willing to dump $700 on a turbonetics version.. At least not yet.

Re: ID: t3-60 vs T3 "super 60" questions
 

Here's what I've found so far on the 60 trim vs. the super 60...
http://www.graphics.cornell.edu/~v/c...maps/t3-60.gif

http://www.graphics.cornell.edu/~v/c...aps/t3-s60.gif

I don't know if any of this helps, you probably already have the maps if you're doing this much research.

Re: ID: t3-60 vs T3 "super 60" questions
 

i dont know where your getting that at. .07 is almost nothing. there is a noticeable difference. up to you to beleive a website or someone that has used both turbos...

can you see the difference?
http://www.westcoast-turbo.com/t3_sale/t3b-1.jpg

http://www.team-integra.net/sections...9dbf442974.jpg

definately more than .07 of an inch

Re: ID: t3-60 vs T3 "super 60" questions
 

to me it looks like the regular 60trim has a bigger sweet spot, not thinking about the price difference i think i would rather have the 60trim instead of the super60

Re: ID: t3-60 vs T3 "super 60" questions
 

I see that the outlet of that 2nd turbo appears to have some port work, but it narrows. The inducers - no way for me to tell a difference just by looking at them... I appreciate the photo reference though!

Re: ID: t3-60 vs T3 "super 60" questions
 

The oem 60 trims have a step on the inlet. If you upgrade a T3 to a Super 60 compressor wheel, you will have to get the housing machined to match.

Re: ID: t3-60 vs T3 "super 60" questions
 

Rule of thumb:
If it's a GARRETT, it can't be a super 60 since the super 60 is made only by turbonetics.

Re: ID: t3-60 vs T3 "super 60" questions
 

that's great information, if it's true.. but maching a standard garret housing to accept an inducer that's .07" larger shouldn't be that big of a deal...

Here are a list of vendors that are selling "super 60s":

http://www.turboelements.com/index.p...d&productId=16
http://www.mjmturbos.com/T3Super60stage3.htm
http://www.spoolinperformance.com/ga...er60-p-33.html



Generally speaking, every single "super 60" I've found isn't authentic, other than the ones made by turbonetics. I even have one ebayer comparing it to a "known" super-60 turbo. Turns out he had two t3-60s based on inducer size...

Re: ID: t3-60 vs T3 "super 60" questions
 

super 60's are very rare because they have to be purchased from turbonetics as an aftermarket turbo.
While of course, normal 60 trim t3's are all over the place because found on many factory cars.

What's the point of spending huge amounts on a turbonetics super 60 while it performs basically the same as the 60 trim?
dcg9381 is right: it's possible to over bore a 60 trim into a super 60, provided you can find that rare wheel, but why just a super 60 while more efficient and cheaper wheels are available??? Here, I fitted a t04B 63 trim wheel in the t3 60 housing. It will outflow any super 60.
http://www.blaastperformance.com/img...rimvsvtrim.jpg

Re: ID: t3-60 vs T3 "super 60" questions
 

If you ask me, that looks like a 57 trim t04e wheel in that one (or similar, like the blaast turbo above). Compair that to this 57 trim/t3 combo:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/GIANT...QQcmdZViewItem

I got 2 of the chrysler housing versions of the same deal for ~$105 each. My guess is that picture they're using is just a mix-up. If you ask them to supply a picture of their super60 (and prove its a at-the-moment picture), it will look almost exactly like the regular 60.


BTW blaast, is the machining usually done with a custom-profile endmill bit? I know they cut small runs of wheels with a cnc, usually a vertical mill with a rotary table. I would doubt they'd put the housing on a mill, as the jig wouldn't be fun.

Re: ID: t3-60 vs T3 "super 60" questions
 

If the "super 60" comes with a 360 thrust, there's some benefit there. There's a minor flow difference.

What's the machine work cost to modify the housing?


The thing that irks me is all the people selling t3-60s as "super 60", knowing that they should get more money for an upgraded thrust and more expensive compressor... This guy sent me the inducer measurements and knows damn well that it's not a super-60:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/GARRE...spagenameZWDVW

Re: ID: t3-60 vs T3 "super 60" questions
 

Well if he sends you the wrong measurements, let him know that you *will* enforce the paypal $2000 protection scheme. But $85 for shipping... ---- that, not worth it at all.

Re: ID: t3-60 vs T3 "super 60" questions
 

Such custom fitted turbo is always gonna be more expensive because of the labor involved. i do a lot of this because for some reason, people find a SUPER 60 sexy but what's the point really? I mean, Going full t3/t4 is much simpler! From my point of view, slapping the proper sized t04B backplate and housing on that t4 wheel is cheaper and performs basically the same.

oh, for those who think turbonetics turbos systematically come with a 360° thrust, well, not really. i saw plenty with the regular thrust plate and when i saw some 360° thrust, it was rarely bolted down as it has to be in order for you to get the said benefits.

Re: ID: t3-60 vs T3 "super 60" questions
 

If you want a super 60 you could always go through Mopar, it would be a dodge flange. Got a couple of buddies with Omni's and daytonas with the Super 60 upgrade. An they are garret turbos.

Re: ID: t3-60 vs T3 "super 60" questions
 

get the 60 trim from Garrett ... those are proven to work very well, and the flow is about the same as with the super 60 one. Not to mention cheaper too.

Re: ID: t3-60 vs T3 "super 60" questions
 

Someone want to make me a deal on one? LEt me know..

Re: ID: t3-60 vs T3 "super 60" questions
 

these days, my current inventory allows me to offer the stage 1 t3 60trim .48/.60 for 399$ to HMT members.
6 month warranty on it.
You can choose two different compressor housings:

• The ford type with flanges
• the nissan Z31 type with 2.5" and 2" spouts.

you can have it upgraded with a T4 wheel as shown above, with the stage 1½ turbine, watercooling, 360° thrust, .63 turbine....possiblities are endless on t3 turbos!
You may be able to get a cheaper one in used condition on ebay, or "rebuilt" with chinese parts as the biggest ebay turbo shops do.

Re: ID: t3-60 vs T3 "super 60" questions
 

^ do not say "only" in front of any price that you advertise .. You should know how stupid this sounds

Re: ID: t3-60 vs T3 "super 60" questions
 

no actually I don'T know how stupid I am. I need people like you to tell me! O0

Re: ID: t3-60 vs T3 "super 60" questions
 

That moron sold it as a super-60 when he knew it wasnt.. Too bad paypal hides the IDs of bidders after that auction.

The paypal "protection" sucks:
1) They charge a processing fee (really an insurance deductable) if they have to deal with the claim.
2) The transaction has to be "insured" and the seller must meet a bunch of qualifications. I'm not sure if that transaction was "protected" or not.
3) Paypal would require that you ship the item back. You don't get paid for shipping either way.
4) They require proof of delivery/return.

Re: ID: t3-60 vs T3 "super 60" questions
 

Yes you can but they are still the .42 a/r compressor housing. Also have you checked the price?
Mopar Super 60 Upgrade: Part# P4529980

Re: ID: t3-60 vs T3 "super 60" questions
 

:S

that was just a friendly advice

Re: ID: t3-60 vs T3 "super 60" questions
 

Here's another one that I think is t3-60, but the seller swears is "super 60".
He'll even show me the receipt if I buy it!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...6575&rd=1&rd=1