fill the block? block guard? which one????
 

has any one had good experiences with filling the block 1 inch and using a block guard. the local machine shop has recommend that thats what i should do but im not sure. is this a good ideal. it is a daily driver too.

Re:fill the block? block guard? which one????
 

I've never heard anything about using block filler for a Honda engine. It seems like it would cut down on liner vibration, but I can't even speculate if it has any effect on cooling. You get to guinnea pig it.

You need to look into a block filler for aluminum engines... I vaguely recall something to the effect that the regular block filler has the coefficient of expansion that iron does. That may not be valid, or true, cause I don't really know this subject and am just repeating some stuff I "heard" a long time ago.

Re:fill the block? block guard? which one????
 

I was gonna get my block sleeved by golden eagle, its like 800 for sleeves and shipping, but im up for a more homemade version. I dont think it would be as strong as a sleeve block though and cooling is always an issue because mines a daily driver too.

Re:fill the block? block guard? which one????
 

TurboRex bob kennedy filled his 1g crx boosted engine with some devcon epoxy, then drilled holes for cooling jackets,

but the entire sleeve isnt filled to the top, he put salt filled half way then drilled the holes, and flushed the salt out, pretty good idea!

Jeff

Re:fill the block? block guard? which one????
 

Salt to space out the epoxy... ninja. Now that is some serious creativity.

Any clue on the epoxy's properties, or how long it has held together?

Re:fill the block? block guard? which one????
 

that sounds pretty interesting. i talked to the machine shop today and they said i shouldnt have any problems with coolant since they was only gonna fill it an 1inch from the bottom. he said most of the heat produced comes from the top of the stroke

Re:fill the block? block guard? which one????
 

all the load on the cylinder sleeves is about 2 inchs from the top, having the support at the bottom isnt going to do much.

http://www.devcon.com

Re:fill the block? block guard? which one????
 

https://www.homemadeturbo.com/misc/devcon.jpg


a few pics

https://www.homemadeturbo.com/misc/devcon2.jpg

those are bob kennedy's pics

Re:fill the block? block guard? which one????
 

that's nice lookin'...i wonder if the epoxy sweld and messed up the bore/hone on it....

Re:fill the block? block guard? which one????
 

indeed, if I was to fill the block, this is how I would do it,

fill the epoxy in the block (salt half way up)

install the main girdle/main caps and torque to spec

install the head and torque the head down to spec

(with both of this installed as the epoxy dries, the sleeves are torqued into place, so it wont shift at all)

let the epoxy dry, then remove the head

drill the holes for coolant passages.

get the cylinders rebored w/ new pistons and deck the block.

this way everything will be uniform.

Jeff

Re:fill the block? block guard? which one????
 

this is very interesting. i was thinking about doing a home block post, but this has potential too. buy about 20 lbs of table salt, but what kind of epoxy? also, i'm guessing you would drain the salt through the water pump intake? Abaz, good idea on the girdle and the head torqued into place to hold stuff stable. hhhhmm...*ponder* hhhhm... DAMN-IT!! now you've given me another think to do to my block!!! AHHH!!!!

let's see, fill the block with the salt (table salt since it's very fine and would pack well. shake the block to level the salt. have to pore the epoxy in real easy (like pouring salt water into a 55 gal tank with "living sand" at he bottom, oy!). putting the head on won't be a prob afterwords, but i'm thinking the girdle should be on before (so you don't have to put it on upside down). also, what about just pushing some loose pistons (with rings) into the cylinders so they where all at the top, where most of the movement would take place. damn-it, i hate this... now i'm going out tomorrow to try and find all this. DON'T YOU GUYS KNOW I'M BUYING A HOUSE AND HAVING A BABY, STOP COMING UP WITH THIS ----!!!

;D

Re:fill the block? block guard? which one????
 

would doing the epoxy salt thing be better and more reliable than the block guard. i already have a block guard so should i not use it and just do the epoxy

Re:fill the block? block guard? which one????
 

that's really your call. block guards CAN be good, if you get one that's matched up good with your coolant holes in the head, AND have it installed right, AND have the block holed afterwards. Now for the epoxy thing, you still have to make sure you get you coolant holes lined up good, and you can't poor it to thick or you'll over heat, poor it to thin and it'll porbably break down and f**k you water pump-radiator-engine-wallet-etc... AND you still have to get you bock honed and decked (at least you should, depends on how ghetto/home made/DYI you want to be). ;D

Re:fill the block? block guard? which one????
 

so how much boast will the block guard alone handle with piston rods

Re:fill the block? block guard? which one????
 

your rods/pistons will go LONG before your block would give, with or without the guard. block guards/block posting (and now block filling) are all ways to let you run massive amounts of boost, but without of these, you can run 10psi easy, 15psi if you like to live dangerously. so, if you're not planning on running that much, then through your guard on ebay and try to get some $$ out of it. i've running stock pistons with B20 rods (not as easy as i first thought, but then is anything??), and i was thinking about block posting since i want to make a few runs at the strip here in town at massive boost, just to see what i can do. now, others will disagree with me, and that's great, that's how people learn... PLEASE point out something if i tell someone the wrong thing, i'd hate to pass along bad/wrong info. so, how much boost are you planning on running, <10psi? >10psi? no clue? let that decide if you use your guard, or fill the block, or run it stock.

;D

Re:fill the block? block guard? which one????
 

Heres the problem with block guards,

The holes are normally to small and reduce the cooling in the upper deck of the block.

Most people just pound the block guards in with a rubber mallet and thats it, this easily distorts the cylinder sleeves, (very bad)

Not to mention block guards are not even that strong at all, just a cheap ass piece of aluminum that doesnt even touch all the points it needs to. That is why people weld them in. Basically you need strong ass support, if you are going to run massive boost,their are "Special Spots" where the cylinders get the most side load. Supposivly "T.O.O" has found the thrust axis points on the blocks, he uses 8 pins on the intake side and 4 on the exhaust, they are located about 2 inchs down from the deck.

How much boost, everyone wants to know.. Nobody knows because eveyones setup is sooo different, how well its tuned, what size bore, all these factors come into play when trying to figure out how much hp the stock sleeves can take.

The "ZEX" race civic, is using a very similar method to this filled block action. Instead the entire block is filled, and its on a D-series running a T4 turbo and I think a 125 shot of Nitrous. Pretty crazy ----.

Next engine I do, its gonna be filled baby!

Jeff

Re:fill the block? block guard? which one????
 

hey Abaz, how thick you think the epoxy guard should be? i was think about an inch. to much? not enough? also, what kinda epoxy you think they are using? i might just ginnea pig this for ya if your thinkin' about, 'cause i am now. let me know your thoughts.

Re:fill the block? block guard? which one????
 

I was all about this ---- about a year ago, then I just freaked out and changed my mind, I didnt like the idea of driving it on the street like that. I would leave about 1/4 of an inch at the top of the deck for cooling, and fill about 2-3 inchs thick of devcon.

Look through their website..

www.devcon.com

I cant remember which exact product bob used, but I remember it wasnt suppose to be support at that temp level, but he did it anyways.

Jeff

Re:fill the block? block guard? which one????
 

you know, no matter how wierd or strange you think something is, someone out there makes EXACTLY what you need:

http://www.hardblok.com/info.html

Re:fill the block? block guard? which one????
 

Yup, that ---- looks good..

Re:fill the block? block guard? which one????
 

well, it's $53 for enough to do a SB Chevy. so i should be able to do 2 D16 (or close to it). well, like you said T.O.O. says the main thrust point is about 2 inches down, soooooooo, if you where to fill with salt up to 3 inches below the deck, and poor in a 2 inch layer, you should have good protection. just take a drill and drill holes around the guard and you shouldn't really see much cooling effect, since the top 2 inches would still be full of water. hhhmmm....

Re:fill the block? block guard? which one????
 

Yup, I say go for it, take some pics when you do it.

and when you do it theirs a nice 19mm bolt off the front of the block to drain all the salt out of, just flush that ---- out good.

Jeff

Re:fill the block? block guard? which one????
 

would you have to drill coolant holes through that stuff?

Re:fill the block? block guard? which one????
 

yup.. as you can see in the pics above thats what bob kennedy did.

Re:fill the block? block guard? which one????
 

yup that is what the dodge boys are doing too. my welder dodge boy told me to do that i look at him and said you are crazy but he convince me. anyway what size holes for the waterjacket to drill. but he told me to fill it half way are you guys talk about fill up all the way.

Re:fill the block? block guard? which one????
 

im gonna be running 10-14 psi street and 20 maybe 22 strip i ve got eagle rods and je pistons. i guess im gonna go try to fill the block from 3 inches below the top to 1 inch from the top and see what happens
now i should have to worry bout that epoxy stuff falling down and messing up the pump and rad. right

Re:fill the block? block guard? which one????
 

heres another ideal what it be a good ideal to tap the block guard down 2 inches below the top and then tap weld it in spots instead of the epoxy

Re:fill the block? block guard? which one????
 

so you mix the epoxy with salt and throw it down there? i still don't get it, anyone want to show me some pics?

here is a pic from me to you

it blew @ 3/4th of the qaurter mile. 11.8 SEC PASS couldof been 10.99

17PSI
http://www.teamfc3s.org/forum/attach...&postid=114982b18a1

Re:fill the block? block guard? which one????
 

Basically fill the bottom of the sleeve with about 3-4 inchs of SALT. (level it out)

Then pour your epoxy (block fill ----) the epoxy wont go all the way to the bottom of the coolant jacket, let it dry, drill the holes, and drain the out.. get it?

Re:fill the block? block guard? which one????
 

i GETTTTTTTTT...thanks alot for the info.

Re:fill the block? block guard? which one????
 

i was gonna go Golden Eagle... but it cost so much...

so im thinking this will rock my world.

Re:fill the block? block guard? which one????
 

k i want to try this. i will definatly try it on my D16 if i keep it around, but thinking i will try it on my B16 when i get it too...

Re:fill the block? block guard? which one????
 

You guys, the people that have did this only used their engines for mainly racing.. after turborex did this he really never drove it on the street.

So just becarful how you do it, and if you dont torque the head/girdle down while the epoxy is drying, and rebore the cylinders (AT A MACHINE SHOP) you are fucked. The cement could dry funny, and when the block heats up and trys to shift you could be popping head gaskets all damn day.

Jeff

Re:fill the block? block guard? which one????
 

oh well d16a1's are cheap.
if i don't like the results
i'll go down to the yard and pull another in the future.

Re:fill the block? block guard? which one????
 

I have a blockgaurd installed and I regret it. I have heard so much bad stuff about them and it wasn't until after I installed it that I found all this crap out. I didn't even hone the block afterwards :-X. I have been pretty lucky so far. DO NOT GET A BLOCKGAURD. You should be worried about your bottom end before you even think about the block. Sob...sob...sob... :-[
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Re:fill the block? block guard? which one????
 

this sounds very good but my concern would be that this setup is not good for daily driving since the heat cycle might endup barking everything apart then you would have all that ---- floating around................. :-\

abaz .....does kennedy drives that thing on daily basis??? ne problems so far...................

Re:fill the block? block guard? which one????
 

when you torque down the head, and girdle, should the head gasket be on too?

Re:fill the block? block guard? which one????
 

The car was sold the last I heard, so I dont know what was up with it, he *sometimes* posts on the resource.. but its pretty rare, hes out of the scene and flying those little ultra-lite airplanes.

I would use like an old headgasket when you just torque the head down.

Jeff

Re:fill the block? block guard? which one????
 

why is the block guard not such a good ideal does it help at all. and also if you were to tap the guard down a couple of inches lower and weld it in place would that be a good ideal?