custom turbo for LX450
 

I'm a redneck. I have a 1996 lexus lx450 (a landcruiser with a $10k badge on front). I play with said machine in dirt. it has lockers at both full floating axles. I have a millermatic 175 mig welder and have welded heavy parts for my lexus like bumpers and sliders. (you guys dont know what sliders are) My truck is already slow with the 400lbs of steel i've added but will get slower with the 35 inch tires im planning. A year ago I began reading "maximum boost" by Corky Bell in preparation for a custom turbo build. Although this is a great book it does little to explain the specific little details of building the custom turbo like manifold construction and tube choices/materials. It offers little to the budget minded builder. I need help. I am humble. I have been searching this wonderful site for a couple days--pure pleasure.

1. what turbo to use: my landcruiser has the only usa motor offered. it is a 4.5L strait 6 cyl. dual overhead cam, 4 valves per cylinder, integral water jacketed oil cooler, with oil squirters below all cylider skirts. the motor makes a conservative 212hp and 175ft tq. redlines at 5000k. Has 135,000 well maintained miles and runs perfect. My landcruiser has the only usa transmission-a 4 speed auto. I rarely take engine above 3,500 rpm and at 80mph on higway the motor turnes about 3000 rpm (with 32 inch tires). I only want 6lbs of boost. I would love to boost down low but where I realy need the power is between 2500 and 3500 rpms as this when I am on the highway and need to pass people and climb mountains. A company in australia called safari used to make a turbo system for my truck but discontinued it. ($7000) This sytem used a t4 (not t3/t4). from what I have learned the turbo had a 46 trim and .84 a/r ratio (i dont know if this was turbine or compressor). I don't have much money and will buy ebay turbo. I have been lookinh at a t4 IhIRHBS with a comp a/r of .60 and a turbine a/r of .70. what a/r should I use for my needs? would these t3/t4 hybrids work or should I stay with a pure t4? If so What a/r ratios? Having had no experience, will oil cooling only (no water) work just fine from a reliability standpoint if I change with synthetic often. I have already installed a nice 2nd oil cooler. Are these $200 t3/t4 "buy it now" ebay turbos ok?. I am planning on using a integrated wastegate for simplicity sake-is that ok?

Tubing
I see you guys constructing your intercooler piping from aluminized mufler tube instead of that expensive silicone tube I almost purchased. Does this stuff rust on the inside at the welds over time?

Manifold
The landcruser manifold is a 2 piece cast header (3 cyliders each) with the collection from each of the 2 headers bolting via a 2 bolt flange to a "y pipe" that combines the gasses from the 2 headers to a single collection going to the exhaust. I am planning to unbolt the "y pipe" from the pair of headers and construct my own "y pipe" going from the 2 piece header to my turbo. By doing this I wont need to unbolt the factory 2 piece header from the engine. I see 2 problems in this constructiuon. First the 2 piece headers bring each bring 3 exaust ports to a single port. This single port flange bolts to the "y pipe" flange via only 2 bolts. Remember each half of the 2 piece header has its own flange with 2 bolts. I will fabricate (from weld els) a "y" header to bring the gasses from the 2 piece header into a single pipe going to the turbo. Are 2 bolts enough to hold these turbo flanges together in a turbo aplication? Should I just cut off the flanges and weld my "y" directly to the manifold (If I do this I have to remove the 2 piece exhaust manifold and all 12 bolts securing them-any of which may sheer?)

I will use no engine management for now as it has been found this engine can support low boost without a problem. in fact TRD makes a supercharger for the motor and includes no engine management

Re: custom turbo for LX450
 

Don't assume that we don't know ----. I know what sliders are.

First of all, you make a common mistake, which is "I want to run XX amount of boost" before you even pick a turbo. Choose your turbo, check the compressor map, then choose your boost accordingly to get the power that you want.

In your case, I would go with some sort of straight T4 turbo.

For tubing, I use mild steel 2.5" pipe. I haven't cut it apart to look at the inside of the welds, but if you paint it it should be just fine.

2 bolts will be fine to hold your exhaust together where you stated.

As far as engine management goes, I sure as hell hope you're right ;)

Re: custom turbo for LX450
 

thanks jagojon3. I will do some reading on turbo selection. what of water cooling? I understand that water cooling will help the turbo live a longer life-other than that is there any reason to have water cooling? Are the cheaper name brand turbo's for $200 ok?

Re: custom turbo for LX450
 

I'm sure you can find a decent $200 turbo somewhere, but I'd be paying more around $400.

Water cooling is not necessary. As long as you don't do a few full boost pulls RIGHT before you shut your car off, you're good. Just let the engine sit at idle for a little bit before you shut it off and that will cool the turbo just fine. Most of the people on this site don't run water lines, me included, with no problems. You don't even have to plug the holes, just leave them open.

Re: custom turbo for LX450
 

ever thought about twin-turbo?? two separate manifolds w/14b?

Re: custom turbo for LX450
 

Even 2 of those are way too small for his motor. I doubt he wants the complexity of a twin turbo kit that won't even work as well as a single.

Re: custom turbo for LX450
 

There are a lot of arabs in Saudi that run twin turbos on this motor with forged innards. these landcruisers develop over 700hp and do over 150mph. The 1fzfe 4.5L six has crazy potential.

so i have been reading my "maximum Boost" book (while at work) over the last couple of hours about turbo selection. at 5000 rpm's (redline) my motor moves 447cfm at a pressure ratio of 1.34 (5 lb boost). At 4000 rpm (hard as ill push it) and PR of 1.34 im moving 359 CFM. so I go to garrets web page to look at maps and they all use this lbs/time value instaead of CFM....what the hell!!!!! how do I convert?!!! arn't there any free turbo calculators out there that do all this work for you???? I cant find any. If I'm going to pay for a calculator to show me all the maps, what one to buy?

Dusty

Re: custom turbo for LX450
 

lbs/time is not a unit.... lbs/min? lbs/hour? Tell me exactly what unit of time is in the denominator and I will tell you how to convert it.

Re: custom turbo for LX450
 

ok go figure-i search this site and i have converted cfm to lbs/min. so now I know that at 4000rpm (fast i will rev her) i am moving 25lb/min and at 2500rpm I am moving 15lb/min. when i look at the t04e compresessor maps using 5lbs boost (pressure ratio of 1.35) and connect the line between 2500 rpm (15lb/min) and 4000rpm (25lb/min) i see see that running such a low boost at these flow rates makes for an inneficient set up with most of the t4s. the 40trim is below 50%, the 46 trim is at 60%, but the 60 trim is better than 70 % at this speed-maybe ill look for 60 trim t4 compressors. 4000 rpm is important because this is where I would like to run on long mountain passes in lower gears. the t3 wont work as it doesn't seem to flow efficiently at the lb/min my motor moves and if i decide to get engine management and run higher boosts i will hit the surge line on most of the t3 maps. t04b s-3 looks like it would work. T04b v-1/v-2 looks real good at a low 5psi boost but if my boost goes much higher at all I will aproach the surge line with this compressor.

Ok so now I thinkI understand these compressors maps. but these different t04e maps im looking out are designated from one another by their "trim" (40,46,50,54,57,60) yet the turbos on sale also describe a/r ratios. Corky bell says in his book that A/R ratios are a way of "fine tuning" the basic turbo size. (I assume each trim a diferent turbo size?) He also says the right a/r ratio is something that is aften discovered with trial and error. I hate trial and error!!! I always error!! I understand smaller a/r ratios spool quicker due to fater gas flow yet can putter out at higher rpms (is 4000rpm high?) does the a/r ratio make all that much diff if i am going to use a say 60 trim t04e? Is there another turbo I should consider. I can read good and plug numbers but have no real world experience. please school me momma

Re: custom turbo for LX450
 

ok I am talking again
in addition to answering the a/r ratio question above i gots more questions.

in my "maximum boost" book A/R ratios are referenced only in terms of turbines and not in terms of compressors. this confuses me even more.

please help me moma and make it hurt real bad

Re: custom turbo for LX450
 

A/R applies to both turbines and compressors, same ----.

Re: custom turbo for LX450
 

I think im figuring this out ....and still talking to myself...still need help...

I'm going to use 2" tube as that is what the safari uses and today i got a great deal on 10 new 2.25" ID tube couplers off ebay for only $53. that silicone hose is pricey!! I have calculated that I can build the piping with 10 180' mandrel 2.25"od bends plus a couple strait pieces. This tube will cost aprox $200.

Finding the right turbo is still a struggle as I have no experience. I have read (think im reading them right) dozens of turbo compressor maps. The good choices that I can see from the maps aremost any of the T04b series, garrett 60-1, garrett t61, 64, or 66. mitsubishi td05h-16g small, mitsubishi td06h-20g, The higher trim (57, 61) T04e series. The t3 compressors will get way inefficient at higher rpm with the 4.5l even at only 5psi-the t3 is too small. I believe the T3/T4 hybrid turbos may work for this motor-but what do I know. from what I have gathered these hybrids use the small t3 turbine (they come in sizes ranging from small to large: “stage 1” to “stage 5”) and the larger t4 compressor (called s,v,or h “trim” for t04b) and (40,46,50,54,57,and 60 trim for the t04e series). I believe the ticket may be to use a large t3 turbine which would spool easier along with a larger t4 compressor (maps show it should be 57, or 60 trim with the t04e, or any of the t04b compressors). My biggest hang up is weather to use a strait t4 or use the t3/t4 combo. So what should it be you low riding biatches?

Re: custom turbo for LX450
 

1fz-fe woot.
Don't worry about the cooling lines to the turbo. Take $7 & buy some 5/16" hose, and 4 hose clamps. Remove the Throttlebody/EGR coolant lines, and route them to the turbo.
*Amazing*
Dude set a power, and powerband goal for the truck first. Then decide the turbo to get there. Don't do it half assed backwards. I suggest not grossly passing a 12:1 peak effective compression ratio. 6-7psi is ok. over 10 & you're pushing that head gasket.

Re: custom turbo for LX450
 

thanks toysrme

the throttlebody/egr collant line trick is cool--I would have never thought of that-the hoses on this motor are right there too.

I . Ill explain how I have been going about this. I know that the nl pully for the TRD supercharger (an eaton M90 without intercooling) makes about 6psi and gives the 4.5L motor about 300hp (stock is 212) and an orgy of torque. I also know that there are 3 diff turbo systems for the motor; the safari, the AVO, and a new system By Manofree (not officially out yet). The turbos make more HP at the same 6psi. I cant find anyone who knows or will tell me exactly what turbo's are used in the kits. I've heard the safari is a T04e.

I assume (incorrectly?) 6psi will make about the same HP regardless of what is making the boost. I have been reading turbo maps and looking for the most efficient (ie minimize hotness) compressors for my pressure ratio in the 2500-4000 rpm range. I am not specifically looking to accelerate quickly but would like some extra power so I can cruise comfortably at 80mph (3000 rpm) and pass people when I need to. But beyond pressure maps I don't know WTF I am doing with turbos. I would love it if I could also go well in the low RPMs but absolutely not at the expense of the 3000-4000rpm range.

Re: custom turbo for LX450
 

to assume is to make an ass out of u and me
cfm is where its at, not pressure.

Re: custom turbo for LX450
 

you right. today I learned to get hp multiply lb/min (cfm) by 10. so for me at 4000rpm and 6psi i am moving 25lb/min=250hp

Re: custom turbo for LX450
 

ok so I found a turbo i may buy. it is a water/oil cooled garrett t3/t4. the guy doesn't know much about it but says its A/R ratios are .62 and .48. and it has no play. thats all he can tell me. so does that mean it is a t04e compressor with a stage 3 t3 turbine. do you think this thing can efficiently support my 4.5L motor at 6psi and 3000-4000rpms?

Re: custom turbo for LX450
 

.48 seems to small. just my opinion.

Re: custom turbo for LX450
 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...MEWA%3AIT&rd=1

Yea I guess I would be better off with purely t4. Do they make a t3/t4 using a stage 5 t3 turbine?
would that flow enough?

Re: custom turbo for LX450
 

i have no clue. i do have a friend with a rather large turbo he was gonna use on his h23, i think it was a 20g. but he might be saving it for his 240 sr20 project. :-\

Re: custom turbo for LX450
 

Lol,

Re: custom turbo for LX450
 

I want pics of the truck. It sounds cool.

Re: custom turbo for LX450
 

I attached a pic up above of the front bumper i finished. Ill try to put in a few more

jagojon3: what does "its got no crank wall" mean? so this turbo aint gunna cut it?

Re: custom turbo for LX450
 

No the turbo should be fine if it lives up to his description.

He actually means no "shaft play" which would be axial play of the turbo's shaft and wheels, moving in and out. You want none of that. While slight side to side play may be alright, as long as the fins aren't hitting the housing(s).

The reason I laughed is because he used the term crank walk. Crank walk is axial play of a crankshaft, which is a somewhat common problem with certain Mitsubishi 4g63 motors. Crank walk and shaft play are the same type of movement, and they both are extremely detrimental to their respective unit (turbo or engine).

This must be a mitsu guy or something, he probably uses the term crank walk a lot ;)

Re: custom turbo for LX450
 

so from this very limited pic and description can someone say what this is. Guy told me its a garrett. He cant even tell me if its a t3/t4 hybrid or just a t4

Re: custom turbo for LX450
 

The description says T3/T4, so now you're telling me he's not sure what kind of turbo it is?

Sorry, I personally can't tell just from looking. Someone here can for sure though.

Re: custom turbo for LX450
 

what about one of these? the price is right. are they poor quality?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/T04B-...49612611QQrdZ1

or this
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/T3-T0...49359299QQrdZ1

Re: custom turbo for LX450
 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/CT-26...spagenameZWDVW

is this the same as a 60-1? what is the a/r ratio of one of these supra turbos

Re: custom turbo for LX450
 

WoW dusty, you're really playing forum tag LoL! I've seen u on 3 forums already! Keep your nose in here 2. Find me a 1fz-fe dyno. Any mods (I don't care) as long as it's normally aspirated. Have you seen one? Can you dig one out???

Re: custom turbo for LX450
 

www.avoturboworld.com/4x4/i6_turbokit.pdf
here is a dyno-stock and turbod with a $7000+ AVO turbo system.

I have no plans of running this motor even close to 5000 rpms. I like the way this dyno levels off at 4000rpms. For now I wont be running multiple injectors and certainly wont have fancy engine management. I only want 6psi for now and 300hp would be plenty. Experience has shown this motor (which has no mods) handles low booste without help. if the turbo works alright once I get it on there I will start with a supra in-tank fuel pump swap and possibly a boost controled fuel pressure device.

Re: custom turbo for LX450
 

Are you planning on using at least a FMU or something?I see they are using ball bearing turbo I would think something like a GT35 might work nice.That engine sure has a nice tq curve stock :o

Re: custom turbo for LX450
 

I cant affort that ball bearing job. I have around a $200ish budget for the actual turbo. No fancy fuel manegement for now-thus the low boost- the motor can handle 6psi fine-people do it all the time.

Re: custom turbo for LX450
 

Can you link me to a setup of someone who is boosting fine with no engine management? Just curious, doesn't really sound smart in any turbo vehicle.

Did you get a turbo yet?

Re: custom turbo for LX450
 

http://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.p...e+regulator%22

More fuel helps at the higher revs and when I can afford management I will get some. BUT RIGHT NOW I STILL NEED A FAWKING TURBO.

Re: custom turbo for LX450
 

Look at a holset turbo. I'm sure a hX35 or something similar would work well. They can be picked up for damn cheap too.

Re: custom turbo for LX450
 

that cummins turbo looks like it can blo but I realy want to stay with a common manifold flange because I have 4 months left in my medical residency and when I graduate I will be making bank. once I make bank I will buy bling turbo and bolt it on.

I am considering t3/t4 (a/r 60/63) hybrid with a 50 or 60 compressor trim. Anyone got one laying around? Someone PMed my with a rebuilt air research described only as ".60 inlet and 1.10 exhaust" do these numbers ring a bell as to what trim this turbo is? whould it be a t04e with trim ___. or would it be a t0b4 with a trim ___, or what. any ideas?

Re: custom turbo for LX450
 

Holset's use standard T3 flange and you could later go to a GT35 or GT40 8)

Re: custom turbo for LX450
 

That link dpes absolutely nothing to support your claim that these engines handle moderate boost fine with no management.The original poster is just lucky he didn't blow his engine up.

Show me a link or something that proves it's fine to run with no management and I'll accept the fact.

Re: custom turbo for LX450
 

Jagojon
The trd supercharger kit for the 1fzfe comes with everything to run the eatom m90 on the truck as long as it is ran with the pully that comes with the kit-this makes 6ps1 and doesn't need rising rate pressures. its true that these additions help but are not needed. besides im not planning to run around at 4000rpms. But ill tell ya what; since you care so much about my motor i will run at leaste a better fuel pump if you will help me pic between these:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...me=STRK:MEWA:IT

also a "airesearch t04 .60inlet and 1.10exhaust" no other info

Re: custom turbo for LX450
 

I just don't want you to blow your ---- up on the first try, that's all. I'm not trying to be a dick. I've also never heard of a forced induction system that ran well without management, so I'm kind of curious how it handles it?

I'm still a skeptic.