Re: Any chance on getting help selecting a turbo upgrade for a diesel?
I thought it was more of Ford squeezing way too much out of the small stock turbos making them blow hot air and that causes problems. And that was only in the recent Powerstrokes....
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Re: Any chance on getting help selecting a turbo upgrade for a diesel?
Originally Posted by ghunt
Alrighty nevermind then.
I have plenty of a clue about how diesels "work." I know that you add fuel to make power. I don't believe I was "running my mouth" about anything but whatever. piss off. You said top end sucks, are you hitting the gov?, and it is pulling back fuel? Are you cleaning up all the fuel you have on the top end? What RPM are you dropping off at? Need more info. |
Re: Any chance on getting help selecting a turbo upgrade for a diesel?
Originally Posted by ghunt
Just a couple questions to start out with and will add more later I guess. First off, any turbo suggestions? Second, is a Holset H1C or HX40 a viable equivalent? Does anyone know what AR a 16cm holset turbine housing is roughly equivalent to?
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Re: Any chance on getting help selecting a turbo upgrade for a diesel?
Originally Posted by ghunt
A powerstroke turbo won't work. Already looked into that idea. Due to it being a reverse rotation there's just no easy way (or room) to do it.
Also, the engine is not "fragile." It's running boost on top of 21.5:1 compression and that's where the problems come in, because if boost goes past 15 psi you seriously risk blowing the head gaskets, and that's not a job I particuarly want to do if I don't have to. 2nd, you can play with timing on a diesel, but I don't really know how to set it (it involves advancing or retarding the injector pump and I don't particularly want to screw it up) 3rd, as far as I have calculated the engine should be moving about 25 lb/min at 2500 rpm and 30 lb/min at 3000 RPM. Somewhere in that range. And finally...Ford engines are fragile? right. How about leaving the brand-bashing BS out of this thread. But if the head gaskets are going to blow they're going to blow. So either leave it alone, or crank up the fuel and boost, blow them and replace it with a better unit and stronger head studs/bolts. If you want to play with the timing learn how. I don't know how but I'm sure there's material out there on how to adjust the injector timing. |
Re: Any chance on getting help selecting a turbo upgrade for a diesel?
Originally Posted by dvst8r
It was a filled block, and had custom rods, pistons, head, ect... AND iirc it ran a sigma fuel pump and JD sticks as well. So yes unless he is willing to put $20K into it I stand by it being fragile.
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Re: Any chance on getting help selecting a turbo upgrade for a diesel?
Originally Posted by highroller54
really I dont remember it having the pistons and rods but that would make sence...
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Re: Any chance on getting help selecting a turbo upgrade for a diesel?
1 Attachment(s)
Originally Posted by dvst8r
From what you just wrote I know you don't have a clue about diesels at all. How they make power, how they work ect... You should get a basic understanding before you mod anything. (Example: Unlike a gasoline engine where it is kept at a fairly fixed ~ 10:1-15:1 A/F ratio, therefore when you add boost you add power as you naturally add fuel. On a diesel A/F can run from 6:1 to over 100:1, Fuel makes power not air, so if all you do is add air, you don;t gain ANYTHING. This is why I said start with fuel and timing first, as that is where the power is to be found. Gale Banks, who has made a fortune hot rodding diesels, says the first rule of increasing performance on a diesel is to add more air. Once you have more air then you can look at turning up the fuel. Which in the case of the example posted was about a 20% increase in power. So ghunt is on the right track as far as looking at a turbo upgrade. Get educated before you start running your mouth about what you think you know. Start here: www.thedieselstop.com Now that school is over. Ghunt, Your best bet is to look at a VGT/VNT turbo. There are guys hot rodding their Mercedes Benz IDI diesels that say this is the route to go. You can find a bunch of them here http://www.superturbodiesel.com . They can also tell you how to make it work without a computer. They have a list of turbos that might be helpful found here http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/...ead-t-235.html dvst8r did have good advice as far as looking to add an intercooloer. Also make sure you have a free flowing exhaust and a free flowing intake. |
Re: Any chance on getting help selecting a turbo upgrade for a diesel?
Originally Posted by Obscene_CNN
Actually on a diesel adding more excess air does increase the power output of the engine. It does so by increasing the engines efficiency by putting more of the combustion heat energy into the working fluid instead of the cylinder walls. Its one of the reasons people add intercoolers to diesels. As shown in The Diesel Reference Handbook 2nd Edition (see attached image) increasing air in the cylinder by about 12% increases power output by about 4% for the same amount of fuel burned.
Gale Banks, who has made a fortune hot rodding diesels, says the first rule of increasing performance on a diesel is to add more air. Once you have more air then you can look at turning up the fuel. Which in the case of the example posted was about a 20% increase in power. So ghunt is on the right track as far as looking at a turbo upgrade. Looks like you need to hit the books too dvst8r. :1 1) The turbo on the truck is capable of more air then it is providing. 2) I have gone from a single turbo setup to twin turbo setup, increasing the air by nearly 50%, and went from 490hp and 995ft.lbs, to 492hp 1095ft.lbs these were dyno'd on different days, but all the settings where the same. So despite adding a bunch of extra air, NO power was found. The extra torque was found from going from a medium single, to a small secondary and a med-large primary. So the secondary lit quicker then the former single, therefore the ip was able to add fuel sooner bringing up the cylinder pressure. Extra air no extra power. 3) I ran a vw 1.6 at 24psi on a t3/t4 50 trim .63 hotside. Made 199hp, ran the same setup, same day, same dyno, never unstrapped, just let it cool off some (we were trying to break 200hp) ran it at 30psi and made 194. LOST 5hp. I believe this to be that there was not any extra fuel to burn so it was taking more energy to run the extra psi (more shaft hp needed) and as such was wasted. Extra air no extra power 4) The intercooler would have two functions adding air density power if there is available fuel to burn, as well as keeping egt's in check, when pulling, or running hard. My current setup will wrap an 1800 degree pyro in less then 10 sec WOT. That could use more air. 5) Once you are leaner then the smoke thresh hold you have very little excess fuel and as such adding air is not going to give you much of a boost. If the OP is all ready running clean the expense and effort of doing a turbo swap for MAYBE 10hp is hardly worth wile, especially if he can just put a mbc on the turbo he has and add the extra air. 6) Here is a dyno of a 7.3 idi with added FUEL and TIMING (via adjusting the stock IP) on a STOCK turbo (stock output shown as well): http://littlepowershop.com/CCI00002.jpg Anymore then this and as is well known to the OP and to 7.3idi owners you blow head gaskets, and need to run studs. Extra Fuel and Timing, extra power. Finally, Obscene_CNN my EXPERIENCE owns your search button knowledge. :1 |
Re: Any chance on getting help selecting a turbo upgrade for a diesel?
Gale Banks is an idiot, anyone who mods diesels laugh at him. My truck ran circles around a full power pakage with just a custom programed sct and exhaust. I'd hate to see what my truck would do to it now.
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Re: Any chance on getting help selecting a turbo upgrade for a diesel?
Originally Posted by highroller54
Gale Banks is an idiot, anyone who mods diesels laugh at him. My truck ran circles around a full power pakage with just a custom programed sct and exhaust. I'd hate to see what my truck would do to it now.
My old beat up 12v, with FREE mods (turning up the fuel, adjusting the timing) would smash most banks kits. Obscene_CNN is right, Gale banks has made a fortune adding very little power, and charging a $$$$$ ton for it. |
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