Re: 88 Fiero GT. Engine swap. Custom turbo build.
 

ByE Aaron!

Not the site to come on an argue, it's a place to learn..

hence I rarely mention I have a fiero , don't wanna be lumped in with a bunch o fags.

Re: 88 Fiero GT. Engine swap. Custom turbo build.
 

Fail.

Piggyback? Fail. :S


Fail. :3

Re: 88 Fiero GT. Engine swap. Custom turbo build.
 

I don't think you understand. I cannot make anymore power than it already is. The short block can't handle it, and I don't have the money for either a built block, or a 3.6l. I know I could easily make another 200whp on this setup. But the goal for me is no longer how much it makes, but how it does so. I am limited by my short block. Hell, I'm not anywhere near even the 35R's limits. I'm at the very left side of the map actually. Maybe I could have made out with the same high end numbers, and better low end, with a 30R and a split housing. Hindsight is 20/20. But that is the advice I want, "Go smaller, you'll make the same power, with better reaction and spool."

And I've got you, and only you, telling me that I need a bigger turbo so I can make more power. First off, I don't, I can squeeze another 200whp out of the turbo I've got. Secondly, I don't want more power. No, more than that, I can't afford to make more power.

And I'm here to learn, but he seems to think I have a Supra, with a block good to 1000rwhp, and a desire to have the biggest baddest dyno number in the Fiero world. It isn't so.

Bugs happen, that's part of any build. Mine was easy to find, didn't result in any damage, and easy to fix.

The piggyback was chosen for a number of reasons, and it's turned out to be a very good decision. I retain all of the factory PCM's advantages, and there are hundreds. I'm very happy with it. It offers much more of the things that are important to me than any of the standalones do. And once boost comes on, it tunes easily and accurately. Before boost, it does absolutely nothing, the factory PCM runs the car, and does so flawlessly. Not many people can go out and start their car on a 0* morning, and have it start right up, and idle seamlessly. I can, and that's important to me. I fully understand there's so much more I can do with the advanced standalones, two-step, launch control, traction control, boost control, all of that stuff. But what they gain in advanced features, they lack in basic features (DFCO, cold-start, multi-step idle, etc.)

Re: 88 Fiero GT. Engine swap. Custom turbo build.
 

Now i know your a ------ tool.


Shoulda spent a little more time planning where things will go to avoid the cluster ---- which is your setup.



Nice build though.

Re: 88 Fiero GT. Engine swap. Custom turbo build.
 

Not for you they won't. You suck at tuning.


FAIL!!!!!

Re: 88 Fiero GT. Engine swap. Custom turbo build.
 

So the stock PCM controls those larger than stock injectors? I see.

Also, I have no problem getting standalones to start up on cold mornings. There are these things called IAT, CTS, and cranking trims you see. Pretty standard ----, your stock PCM even has them. You know, the one that you could have reprogramed for pennies instead of that piggyback hack crap you threw away money on?

Re: 88 Fiero GT. Engine swap. Custom turbo build.
 

The LSX is the best automotive engine ever designed, period. I'd love to hear your argument. Remember that the same basic block is pulling trailers for 300,000 miles in Heavy Duty trucks, and turning 7 and a half minute Nurburgring times. It has unrivaled flexibility. It of course is not applicable to every car ever, but the range of applications it has is, as said before, completely unrivaled.

So, please tell me where I should have put this stuff. Suggest another location for my intercooler, or wastegate, or turbo, for example. Stipulations, decklid is not touched, trunk is left alone, firewall is left alone, and minimalizing charge pipe volume, and exhaust volume pre-turbo, is an absolute priority. Trust me, I could have spent years on it, and it'd still be a cluster ----. That's just part of the build. It's fitting 1000 cubic inches of important stuff in 1001 cubic inches of space.

Thanks, though I'm confused as to why you'd say that. As for the suck at tuning comment, it was pretty much out of my hands. Every change I made didn't do anything, as I was changing cells it wasn't going anywhere near, and I had no way of knowing until the dyno day. It's now fixed, and running much better (Meaning the tune is good now).

It's quite clear you don't know near enough about my build to make these comments. The stock PCM does control them, perfectly, in fact. I had it programmed, for pennies (5,000 of them), to do so. However, it would have done so without the programming. That's the advantage of the PCM I was using. The only thing that would have given me problems was initial startup, and open loop driving, as both of these conditions are done on preset tables, and not on O2 feedback of course.

I've played with a number of standalones, and you project the same. You and I both know how truly full of ---- you are if you wouldn't rather a stock ECU do the job (If it could). I don't need to say anymore about that, you know it (You just won't say it). That aside, again, you don't know enough about my PCM to be making those statements. The PCM I chose cannot be programmed for boost, at least, not plausibly. So here were my options (OBD1 and 2 can be programmed for boost):

1) Go for an OBD1 setup. I lose the cold start, cold drivability, and overall more accurate tuning of the OBD2 software. I've had plenty of OBD1 cars, and although it's fine, OBD2 is clearly better.
2) So go OBD2 right? Well the OBD2 3.4s were never offered with a manual, thus they have idle issues when used with a manual. Like, big idle issues.
3) Go standalone. This would be an option, however, I'd be left with what is realistically OBD1 software, which presents the same problems as number 1, regardless of tuning.
4) Go OBD1.5, and a piggyback. The OBD1.5 offers every advantage of OBD2, with the advantage of being able to copy the OBD1 manual tranny's code right over. That, along with the 42lb injector programming, cost $50. My car ran, and ran perfectly, N/A. However, the PCM cannot fuel for boost, without completely changing the entire airflow tables (Disadvantage of OBD1.5, which fixing would run me thousands, not pennies). So I choose the piggyback. The piggyback does absolutely nothing, until the engine exceeds ambient pressure. Then it adjusts the values of a single engine sensor, which changes the stock PCM's fueling, which of course, I control. It can do the same thing for timing, however I don't need to pull any timing as I'm not pushing enough air or temperature to need so, so the timing tables are left alone. So the piggyback allows me the luxury of the factory PCM, and everything it does, whilst still being able to accurately, and reliably, fuel for boost.

I guess what I'm trying to ask, is how is my piggyback a hackjob, and what better option did I have? I realize that it is most of the time not the best solution. I realize factory PCMs are the way to go, but do not offer performance capabilities that standalones do. But I chose a very peculiar powertrain combination, and the tools I chose to get it working right maximized every component that was important to me. I hate to make it sound like this, but it needs to be said. I spent a lot of time, a lot of experimentation, a lot of research, and a lot of money getting this car to where I wanted it, and where it is. And to be told by someone who has spent no relevant time, done no relevant experimentation, done no relevant research, and spent no relevant money that I did this and this wrong isn't exactly easy to hear, or ignore. You made assumptions, and they were wrong. You failed to realize what I wanted out of this car, and what solution was best for that. I can't blame you for the assumptions, I would have made the same ones had I not known much, if anything, about the specific powertrain combination being used.

I do have things to learn, there are things I could have done better, and there are better engines I could have used. But for what I chose, and what I wanted, there was no other plausible solution.

Re: 88 Fiero GT. Engine swap. Custom turbo build.
 

You arent Pshyco, youre a ------- moron.

Re: 88 Fiero GT. Engine swap. Custom turbo build.
 

+1

Dude's too stupid to continue correcting. He's obviously never tuned ----.

Re: 88 Fiero GT. Engine swap. Custom turbo build.
 

That's pretty much you saying you don't know how to tune.




:l , Ya, if your head is five miles up your boyfriends ass.

Re: 88 Fiero GT. Engine swap. Custom turbo build.
 

I had thunder to steal? My post was 100% about holset integration, not "omg fiero ownage" or "omg dyno numbers" I didnt post times, dynos, videos, anything... its not even done yet.

He claims to have the "turbo TDC record" with less airflow than the current record holder, and less than 10:1 afr..... something doesnt add up here sorry, I didnt think it was a point to argue yet a statement of fact....

Re: 88 Fiero GT. Engine swap. Custom turbo build.
 

No, that's saying there was a problem with the rpm pickup, and I was tuning the cells it wasn't using (But should have been). As I said before, it's been fixed, tune is good now. So what's the point? There was a bug, like on any build to this level. It was found, and fixed. There were half a million others if you need something to try and make your car look better.

You apparently don't know the differences between his build and mine. Might want to take a look, it would explain a lot.

Re: 88 Fiero GT. Engine swap. Custom turbo build.
 

We might not give a ----. You're a ------- douchebag.
Go ---- your mom.


I do, shes not half bad.

Re: 88 Fiero GT. Engine swap. Custom turbo build.
 

http://realfierotech.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=15685

I had too , arron you get hated on every forum.

Re: 88 Fiero GT. Engine swap. Custom turbo build.
 

How's your car doing?

When's the last time it ran?

Pretty pathetic when you won't even touch your car because you're scared of a few wires.

Re: 88 Fiero GT. Engine swap. Custom turbo build.
 

I have 6 cars Chicho.... Not just a Fiero, and it's attitudes like yours that make me content with it just sititng there. Also keep in mind I autocrossed mine for 13 years. Had my fill and will go back to it eventually.

Not to mention I have a real job, not in school or just out of it hoping to make my way. I believe you said you were in debt up to your eye balls due to the car , and still had no job.

I said earlier you have a cool setup, but you should be figuring out by now , if 2 forums both think you are a toolshed, it's not the forum that is the problem, it's you. I can't believe you are arguing with some of these guys. They have made wayy more power from much smaller engines, and while every one of them is an ------- , the same guys have also helped me out a ton.... it's called respect.. learn it...

As for the LS1 being the best... We Have 3 of them , I disagree. They are the best SBC's every by far...best engines... Nope. They are vastly in-efficient in comparison to some others out there.

You have 2 ears and one mouth for a reason, use them in accordance. Personally if i were you I would just leave HMT forever , no one is going to give a ---- what you say or what you post. You could post up a 900 HP D-series that runs on Cat piss, you will always be called a fag. Doesn't matter what kind of car you come on here with , if you don't show respect to the Old School you will get ripped.


The porn you posted isn't even softcore, I have seen better on the kids channel and in sears catalogs

Re: 88 Fiero GT. Engine swap. Custom turbo build.
 

OMG, here's a quote of princess asshat on the RFT link Lowerit provided.


What a clown. If the head was worth a ---- the burn rate would go up requiring more timing to be pulled, and COP has nothing to do with anything as long as you have the requisite spark energy to ignite the intake charge. So, he's claimed to have tuned one car, can provide exactly one dyno sheet of the car breaking up past 4000 rpms due to < 10:1 AFRs and a complete lack of tuning, and he knows everything. Wait until you're a thousand cars deep and still refining your theory, princess, reality is a bitch.

Most of us like sass, no one worth respecting rolls over. What we don't like is bullshitting and people with fevered little egos over slow, unimpressive cars.

Re: 88 Fiero GT. Engine swap. Custom turbo build.
 

aaron, go take that dyno graph and throw it in the trash, all it does is remind you of the compltely worthless job you do tuning, and that you will NEVER get it right.




This aaron moron says that OBD2 sucks, and wont work with a manual.... when I have gotten MANY setups running obd2 on manuals without any issues. The obd2's even use maf sensors that would let you tune accurately in boost.

The piggy back is a SUPER expensive hackjob. Its like running a piggy back on a honda that you could swap to a hondata style setup for his car sitting in every junkyard in the country. It would be really consistent, and you would have a sweet timing table to start with.. last time I checked running stock n/a timing with a turbo and pump gas was a bad idea.

Re: 88 Fiero GT. Engine swap. Custom turbo build.
 

What, haven't you heard the days of needing to pull timing with boost are gone?

Re: 88 Fiero GT. Engine swap. Custom turbo build.
 

JD have you also heard, standalones can never have good starting and idling, EVER. :S

Re: 88 Fiero GT. Engine swap. Custom turbo build.
 

9:1 is where teh power is at.... Mazybe his cams are all 360 degrees off??? :1

Re: 88 Fiero GT. Engine swap. Custom turbo build.
 

here is the awesome dyno graph.

http://stsnyder.bol.ucla.edu/fiero/d..._naoverlay.jpg

Notice the correction factor. remember that turbos are not going to flow less air, because they will just spin faster and suck more low density air. The turbo wont be significantly less efficent because of the higher speed, at least not 27% less.... 10psi is 10psi no matter what atmospheric pressure you are at.

Re: 88 Fiero GT. Engine swap. Custom turbo build.
 

That has to be one of the worst dyno sheets ive ever seen.

Double dips in the AFR's and torque curve are for the lose. :1


A turbo honda with half the horsepower would destroy that thing with powerband. Fail.

Re: 88 Fiero GT. Engine swap. Custom turbo build.
 

my bone stock pile of crap 3800 swap would eat it alive... 12.2@108.

Maybe 250-260whp with alot of torque and a flat power curve.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zl-cfJqjRTE

Re: 88 Fiero GT. Engine swap. Custom turbo build.
 

I haven't read the thread yet, but...

Looks like a pretty cool build, but why in the hell did you use the dreaded X motor.

:l


The 55 is sweet. I have been wanting one pretty badly again lately.

Re: 88 Fiero GT. Engine swap. Custom turbo build.
 

If you read the thread you would understand the OP is a complete idiot, thusly explaining the 3.4 DOHC pile of ----.

Re: 88 Fiero GT. Engine swap. Custom turbo build.
 

Its pretty shitty when you compare it to pretty much every other motor out there. I wouldnt even want to discribe the advantages of a 3800 over that thing...

even going from that motor to a d series would be an upgrade.

Re: 88 Fiero GT. Engine swap. Custom turbo build.
 

I always liked the 3800.

A local guy does 3800 swaps into Fiero donors, turns them into Lambo kit cars. Pretty fun stuff, really.

Re: 88 Fiero GT. Engine swap. Custom turbo build.
 

I used to beat on the series 1 3800 in the toronado when running 7 psi more or less untuned. That engine would take nasty amounts of knock and lean AFRs. Fucken manifold would glow red hot in the daytime. Not as fancy as the 3.4 but tried and true. I do like the 4.6 northstar engines though.

Re: 88 Fiero GT. Engine swap. Custom turbo build.
 

Good enough explanation.

Yes, the 3800 is probably one of the best things to ever come out of General Motors.


On the tunin side, yuou mean to tell me you couldn't have run that on a 7730 ECM with Tuner Pro RT?

Sorry, but I fail to see how the OBD2 setup is far superior when it comes to cold idle.

Whatever man. It is a pretty neat build minus the 3.4 X pile of fial. Fieros hold a specail place in my heart. They are pretty cool cars when done up right.

I have a Northstar sitting in my storage unit. One day I may attmpet to do that clusterfuck of a swap just for the challenge.

Re: 88 Fiero GT. Engine swap. Custom turbo build.
 

My point exactly.

Re: 88 Fiero GT. Engine swap. Custom turbo build.
 

LOL, tunerproRT

I used that program for uploading to the Ostrich before any of the honda ROM editors had the capability. It never f-ed up on automatically finding the ostrich or uploading/dling to it. It took quite some time before any honda editor could do that.

I tried working with Greg I think his name was, on making tunerpro easier use on hondas (like byte change options, instead of bit changing, and other little tidbits). He liked the idea but was always too busy.

Re: 88 Fiero GT. Engine swap. Custom turbo build.
 

Either that or try to find a 7749, if memory serves me correctly, but the 7730 is hacked more than the Sy/Ty ECM last time I read anything about it.

Lol. I got into Honduhs right as RTP was becoming a more common thing.

Re: 88 Fiero GT. Engine swap. Custom turbo build.
 

Mark Mansur. He roomed with Moatsie at PRI last year, dude's ------- sharp.

Re: 88 Fiero GT. Engine swap. Custom turbo build.
 

im running a moates adapter on my 7749
the best setup has a switch for 16 diff tunes on one chip.

Re: 88 Fiero GT. Engine swap. Custom turbo build.
 

Hey, could you non-faggot Fiero guys redeem this thread with some pictures/details of your rides?

Re: 88 Fiero GT. Engine swap. Custom turbo build.
 

thats a pretty rare bread.

Re: 88 Fiero GT. Engine swap. Custom turbo build.
 

Oh ya, Mark. Ya both Craig and Mark are bright guys.

Re: 88 Fiero GT. Engine swap. Custom turbo build.
 

My fiero is too gay to post here... i dont really care enough about it.

Its getting painted currently, and the turbo setup is in working beta form.

Re: 88 Fiero GT. Engine swap. Custom turbo build.
 

Here is my super cheap ass turbo build pictures.

Attachment 12490

Attachment 12491

Attachment 12492

Heres the car the day I drove it home for $125.

Attachment 12493