16g help
 

hey guys, i decided to change my setup that im going with here for my dohc zc.

since im dropping in wiescos, TT rods and acl race bearings, i thought id shooot higher than 250whp.

im going to pickup a 16g so itll bolt right onto the mani i got now...but i got a few questions first. i know i could google all this info but im hoping to hear from some guys that ran close to the same setup. first off, are the flanges for the 14b and 16g the same? i have a 14b bolted to the manifold now and wonder since its still a dsm if itll bolt right up?

also, how much can i expect from the 16g? im hoping for 350whp.

and lastly, what size lines should i use for the feed? braided steel so the AN sizes...

thanks in advance guys, heres some pics of what im into

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/c...1/CIMG0835.jpg

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/c...1/CIMG0843.jpg

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/c...CIMG0845-1.jpg

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/c...CIMG0847-1.jpg

Re: 16g help
 

Use a -3 AN feed line. If you want an all-in-one kit get it from www.---------------------------

Re: 16g help
 

Well, they say there are several different size 16g's...small, big, evo3, etc.,etc... I'm sure at least one of them is good for 350hp..

Re: 16g help
 

The big or EVO3 16g's are able to support enough lbs/min to make 350whp on some cars, but they'll be damn near maxed out (i.e. 22-28psi). Yes I know people are claiming 400+ out of the EVO3 variants, but there are other variables they're not listing. 350whp on pump gas out of a 16g is very ambitious. A good t3/to4b or t3/to4e would be a much better decision.

Re: 16g help
 

word son

Re: 16g help
 

A friend just put down 325hp with a 16g and 20psi........................ A evo8 twin scroll 16g :6

Re: 16g help
 

That's a completely different turbo. IIRC the compressor wheel is only 0.01" larger than a DSM 16g, but the turbo is much more efficient overall. Still, I'd say 350whp out of any 16g is a crapshoot on a daily driven car. No matter what; you'll be pushing it harder than it was designed for and it'll ultimately fail early. Again, a larger Garrett will allow you to make the same numbers without running the piss out of it. Hell, I'd even go with a 60 trim T3 over a 16g lol. The bottom line is that Garrett>Mitsu. The sooner you realize that; the happier you and your car will be.

Re: 16g help
 

agreed. i have a brand new td05h big 16g (evo1 and evo2). almost same as 16 g except my compressor walls are thicker and can be bored out to fit larger stuff. i'm reading everywhere that this turbo can go for 350 MAX.

as for fitment. the 14b and td05h big 16g (evo 1,2, and 3) all have the same downpipe flange, j pipe flange, and can even interchange the internal wastegate actuator. if you want a 100% bolt on replacement, the big 16g is garuntee hassle free... but if you want 350hp daily.. i'd say look into another turbo =)

Re: 16g help
 

damn, good ---- guys, thanks alot im not exactly sure what i want to do now, see i was saying 350whp kinda knowing that something wasnt going to go as well as i hoped and i would come up with like 315whp..

awsome info, ill be looking into different turbos... do you know of any dsm's or even any other company that makes a turbo that will bolt right onto my manifold?? something a little bigger, i believe i could go with like a 20g right?

heres what i own now

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/c...1/CIMG0752.jpg

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/c...1/CIMG0751.jpg

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/c...1/CIMG0750.jpg


thanks,

matt

Re: 16g help
 

there is a pte 50 trim you can get that bolts on to a dsm flange

Re: 16g help
 

If you want power, stay away from MHI turbos. The turbine shaft is too small to support any real power for a long time. Reliability isnt even close to the Garret/BW realm.
I would def. avoid the 20g. or any variation of it.

Re: 16g help
 

Agreed, that is ofcourse you're willing to shell out for a 20g or s25g. :)

Re: 16g help
 

hmmm, so what your saying is to sell what i bought, and buy a new manifold and turbo?

any suggestions, looking for 350whp, 375 max

Re: 16g help
 

There are hybrids that use the TD05 xhaust housing but a different type of compressor...I know of garretts and borg warners..

Re: 16g help
 

You can go with forced performance.


http://store.forcedperformance.net/m...Code=DSM-Turbo

Pricey but fp is the ---- and a treat to deal with.

Re: 16g help
 

perhaps i can help since putting DSM turbos on D motors is what i do :) any way short and sweet on a SOHC no 16g will make 350 whp with out a very agressive timing map. i dont know how this pertains to the fact your a DOHC so bear with me. here is what i made on 3 different dsm tubos on the same SOHC D16z6
14b = 230 whp
big16g = 295 whp
bastard 20g from slow boy racing = 305 whp
while the bastard 20 g appears to have only made 10 more whp thats misleading that is the peak WHP gain, but at 5500 RPMs it made a whooping 50 more whp and ft-ibs of torque!!! and that is a huge gain down low.
all 3 of these tunes were safe and not aggressive and for 93 octane. I think you will make a little more since you are DOHC and also i was using a very restrictive 02 housing on the big16g, stock is only like 1 7/8s inch opening :( and my exhaust on my car is also only 2.5 inch at its max. the rest of my motor is bone stock cept the pistons and rods and head studs.

Re: 16g help
 

niice, thanks man. yea im pretty much saying screw the 16g, too small. i know i guy (sikcrx89) whos selling his d series garrett mani bolted to the turbo, but its small.. i could swap compressor housings to make it big and run that.. but im not going to make more then 350whp with the stock head, it just wont flow. sould i go with the 16g and shoot for 300whp? or go with something bigger??? ill get pics of what i did tonight when i get home. Thanks to all who are helping, does good.

the turbo and mani is "GREDDY D16 turbo manifold and GREDDY 15G turbo"

is that too small to swap compressor housings and make that 325-350whp? i know marcus is a good guy and wouldnt sell me crap, but im not sure about turbo sizes to say the least

pics of my intercooler setup, hoping to make a skidplate for it lol its 8 X 3.5 X ??? notice i didnt cut out the grill or fog lights ha cause i got it to fit right.. its as high up as the bumper support will allow.

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/c...1/CIMG0867.jpg

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/c...1/CIMG0868.jpg

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/c...1/CIMG0871.jpg
'
http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/c...1/CIMG0872.jpg

cut the plastics out so the bumper would stretch over the intercooler a little more...V
http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/c...1/CIMG0879.jpg

and some nice black paint in random areas and on the bottom ft or so of the engine bay...

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/c...1/CIMG0880.jpg




-matt

Re: 16g help
 

hey bro let me ask why are you so concerned about a certain peak number? you know peak numbers are only good for bench racing. what fun is a peak number thats weak down low and then sky rockets at the end of the rpm range? first let me ask you this what are your goals with the car? will it be daily driver? drag raced on weekends? auto crossed? or just straight drag car? if your answer is the first 3 options go with the big 16g if its only for drag racing and no street use then go ahead and shoot for that big turbo set up. my CRX ran low 12s in street trim with only slicks bolted on using a big 16g and it was a blast on the street to drive, spooled very fast and gobs of torque. make sure you get a good 02 housing or port the stock one allot. dont underestimate 300 whp especially if your making a fat torque curve, it will smoke B series that are making 350 whp easily.

Re: 16g help
 

ha yea i was thinking the exact same thing.. i was talking to a guy i know who made 375whp with his dohc... but it only made 150whp at 5000 rpm, hah

im going to go with the big16g and shoot for 300-315whp. its going to be a street driven car, so 300 is great.

i have the 2 timer installed, so i wanna run like a 10 pound map, and then an 18 pound map, and be able to switch at the flick of a switch.. lol

im just a little power mad.. this is my first build and it all started with "im goign to boost my stock zc at 10 pounds on a 14b" and now im all the way to "wiescos, forged rods, acl bearings, .20 over, polished and balanced crank, and tons of other stuff..."


lemme know what you think, thanks

matt

Re: 16g help
 

bump for suggestions

Re: 16g help
 

If you're truly "power mad" like you claim; a 16g isn't the turbo you want. A 20G is getting closer @ 52.5mm, but turbine wise it's still <Garrett.

Re: 16g help
 

ha yea i know what you mean... im kinda on a budget too, and im replacing so much more than i thought i would have to (for example, $250 at advanced yesterday for an oil pump, timing belt tensioner, t belt, and t stat) so im kinda running paycheck to paycheck and using every cent of it! how much would a 20g cost and is it going to have the same flange as my mani?


thanks

matt

Re: 16g help
 

Slow Boy racing makes a bastard 20g which is a big 16g ported out to hold a 20g wheel, this allows it to bolt directly onto a set up designed to run a big16 g with out having to change anything. again its still pretty much like a big16g just flows a bit more air. its not very cheap i payed over 1200.00 for mine , but then i had it fully ported and polished and the waste gate bored out and ported with a bigger flapper to help avoid boost creep. i know big numbers sound good on paper but again often you dont get any low end grunt and thats no fun red light to red light . here is a time slip from last night , this is a SOHC d16z6 with a bone stock head and intake the block only has ARP studs and scat rods and srp pistons. my car is a CRX thats not gutted in any way and has a stereo systrem and all the other daily driver stuff in it. i simply go to the track and bolt on slicks and race then put on my street tires and go home. i am making 305 whp and 265 tq to the wheels. i am plenty fast enough to run with the majority of the cars in my area, and i am typically the quickest import on any given friday night event.
Attachment 15513

Re: 16g help
 

The proof is in the puddin' bitches...

Re: 16g help
 

If you REALLY want to stick w/ the mitsu housing, you can also go with a slow boy bastard 20g. Otherwise they also make the .50 tim, and sc61's with a mitsu housing that would bolt right up as well

Re: 16g help
 

so you ran a 17.7@79.7 thats not impressive

Re: 16g help
 

ha see i cant afford to spend like more than 200 bucks on a turbo, thats where its going to get me. i could pick up a nice 20g for like 220 right?


and make that 300-320whp?


thanks,
matt

Re: 16g help
 

if thats all you got to spend i would just get a ebay big 16g , i ran one and it was fine, i still went mid to low 12s on that turbo.

Re: 16g help
 

20G is way more than $220. It's hard to even get a good used MHI 16g for that much. The 20G goes for $850-$1200 new, so you'll never get a good used one for $220; not even $320. I mean there's always the rare exception. Even though I hate on Mitsu turbos; I still think the smaller TD05H 20G is great on a street driven 4-banger. Spools reasonable enough and has a pretty fat compressor wheel too. 300whp is way more attainable on pump gas with a 20G than a 16g.

Re: 16g help
 

----, from what you're looking at, it may be cheaper to just use a t3/t4. Atleast you can go cdm and not break the bank until you can afford a good legit turbo.

Big mitsu turbos are not cheap. Why? They dont sell enough of them. Remember when 16g's cost $800 new? You can flex an unported/unclipped 16g for about $275 on ebay, maybe less. Just keep on ebay and look around. Some are legit, some are cdm but the quality for the 16g's is about the same. That's the general opinion in the dsm scene. I haven't heard anyone bitch about their cdm 16g yet.

Cut the core support and tuck that intercooler. If you hit something up front, your car is going to crumple like a beer can anyway.
Check your inbox nog. We have business to attend to.

Re: 16g help
 

ha nice, well then i may need to cash out a little more for the turbo, no way a cdm turbo is going on my car.. i want that 300whp but with the right stuff.. looks like ill be searching for that 20g...

what is MHI?????


and i wouldnt be able to really tell between a fake or real dsm turbo, so if anyone has any links to a "how to spot a fake" type of writeup, that would be great

i dont trust ebay at all...

and also, if anyones got any turbos for sale let me know


thanks,

matt

Re: 16g help
 

check goldfarb (store name: turbochargers and diesel injection) on ebay cheap ass turbos i got my hx40 thats on my dsm for like 145 bucks. most have a ungodly large turbine housing made for a diesel but i have seen a t3 20g for a typhoon on there a little while back for 120 bucks :o plan on picking up one of the et bw s200's that he has.

http://stores.ebay.com/TURBOCHARGER-...ESEL-INJECTION

---- just sell the 14b and re-flange your mani

Re: 16g help
 

MHI is Mitsubishi Heavy Industries. So in other words; a genuine turbo. It's very easy to spot a fake. Almost every one I've seen says TURBOCHARGER on it. The knock-off 16g's have an adjustable actuator arm and don't have TD05H stamped on the compressor housing. Just get a part number off the turbo; that guarantees authenticity. I'm seeing some crazy fakes nowadays though. The Chinese are getting good with aluminum casting and are making dead on Garrett compressor housings. Those turbos don't have a Garrett part number though. If you really want a 20G; I have one, but I'm not selling it for $200. Now doubt Garrett t3/t4 is better, but if you're going to stay Mitsu; the 20G is great for a street car. PM me if you want.

Re: 16g help
 

Mitsubishi Heavy Industries

All ive ever ran are mitsu turbos until recently. However, I strongly feel they are nowhere near the reliability of a properly sized garrett or BW turbo.

The 20g isnt going to last nearly as long as a big 16g. Both have the fail-ass small turbine shaft thats half the size it should be.

Unless you already have a dsm based exhaust manifold, go with the garrett stuff.

Even if you do have a mitsu-feces mani, get something with a garrett based compressor and CHRA. Slowboy's M57/M60 turbos were ------- indestructable and made mad power.

Re: 16g help
 

Or get one of BEP SS DSM housings and rock a holset :y

Re: 16g help
 

The problem still remains though. The ------- fail mitsu hot-side. The same reason a .63 a/r T3 hotside will outflow the mitsu 8cm housing.

Holsets FTMFW!!!

Re: 16g help
 

Like i said scrap the dsm flange and run a t3 flange..... then go out and get yourself a holset and the bep .70a/r t3 hotside and get rid of that failing dsm bullshit :S

Re: 16g help
 

see are ther dsm/MHI turbos really that bad? i can upgrade later, i just want my build done in the next month or so... im shooting for anything over 300whp, on the second map, im running a 2 timer remember.. i will only boost daily driving (which will be once every 2 weeks) at 10 pounds of boost, and when i get ancy hit the switch to run the say 17 pound map, and crank up my boost controller. so the turbo will only be actually used at defenately less than what its capable of doing (cause im not boosting past 20psi) and itll only make me what probably 320-330whp cause im not going to use race gas either.. 93 only..

im thinking for what i want, itll be real reliable.. lemme knwo what you think

thanks,

matt

Re: 16g help
 

The DSM bolt-on housing for Garretts and Holsets are aftermarket and not Mitsubishi. No doubt they suck ass. If you're going to go Garrett; run the Garrett turbine housing too. The 7cm Mitsu housing isn't bad at all, especially ported properly. It's almost identical to the .48 a/r in terms of volume and what not. 20psi is doable on a 16g, but is still running it pretty hard. They'll last a long time at 20psi though. That's right about 300whp, probably a little less. A 20G can make 300whp at lower boost, so really is a good alternative to a Garrett. Mitsu turbos aren't bad at all for low(ish) boost street set-ups. They're oil/water cooled and have a better thrust set-up than a stock Garrett turbo. 14b's go for 200k miles all the time at 10psi and 16g's go for 150k or so at OEM levels as high as 17psi. The 20G doesn't come on any cars that I know of stock (17c on the Typhoon and Syclone is damn close) , but I'm sure the diesel trucks it comes off go for a ton of miles at relatively high boost. The Garrett turbos have much thicker shafts though, so if you're wanting to make lots of power or run high boost; I'd put my money on Garrett. Nothing wrong with a Mitsu turbo though. Garrett and Mitsu turbos are definitely the top 2 "name brand" turbos. At least IMO and experience.

Re: 16g help
 

+1 I partially agree with you.

Actually, the 20G isnt a real turbo. Mistubishi never made anything called a '20g' There is a tdo6H compressor (with a td05h centersection) and various forms of the 17c and 18g, but the '20g' is not a factory mhi turbo. Its an 18g with a bigger compressor wheel somebody made back in the day, and has evolved to what it is now. An overpriced, poorly engineered hybrid.

MHI turbos will last a minute at lower boost levels, I agree. But its a well known problem that the turbine shaft is about half the size it should be. Most of the ppl on this board who run a MHI turbo are in the sub-300hp range, and have no problems. Above that for any amount of time the turbo wont last. I untill recently had a pile of random MHI turbos, and, was at one point making one turbo from three. Trust me though, they do fail.

The price of the MHI turbos VS. the price for the equivelent Garrett unit makes me lean towards the more abundant, better parts market turbo.

The mitsu-feces exhaust housing simply does not have the flow capability of a t3, unless extensively modified.

crx2211, im not trying to argue with you, but you cant put an MHI turbo in the same boat as a Garrett or BW turbo. Price, reliability, function, all fall to the latter two. Thats my opinion based on my personal experience.