Selling manifolds: Why it sucks.
 

It see so many of you looking for that magic pill...the manifold that is cheap, good, and ships now.. Guess what? It's not gonna happen!!! That's like finding a new Porsche for $4000.

Why? Well, lets look at the average guy that's "starting a business" making manifolds. He's not been welding long, and he's not that good of a welder. Therefore, the quality you can give up on the hopes of getting top quality welds. Since he's new to it, he's gonna take much longer to do it than an experienced welder will. Damn, there goes the option of fast shipping.

Oh, but you still have hopes of finding a cheap option, right? You're willing to wait a little while, and get less than the best quality, because you don't have the cash to buy something better. Well, remember where I mentioned that the guy's not gonna be fast? Making these is no fun, and not a fast thing for an experienced guy. Without a lot of experience, it takes much longer. You tell me...would you work your ass off for 3 days to make $200? If so, you probably can find another way to work your ass off and make more than that. Therefore, the guys making these aren't really that motivated by the money because it's not good money, considering the time spent on them.

Now, lets look at the "holy grail" of manifolds... Full Race. hmmmm I don't think they will make you a ram horn manifold for $300. Why? Cause it's not worth the time, trouble and expense. Why have they grown, while others keep failing? ummmm cause they won't work for nothing. THEY FUKING MAKE A DECENT PROFIT AT THEIR PRICES!!! Is their work prefect? ummm no, it's not. However, better welders will typically not want to work on ---- like this that doesn't pay the welder very well. The guys at Full Race probably get about $17-19/hr. That's not a lot of money for a welder in that part of the country. That said, they are definitely one of the best options you have for getting a quality product from a company that specializes in them.

If any of you want to become manifold builders, why try to be the cheapest? Be the best, and you can name your price. What if you made a product better than Full Race? Wow!!! all of a sudden you'd be able to sell for their price. As you grew your reputation, you could probably force them to lower their prices to compete with you, or you may be able to bump your price up above theres...and make a decent profit.

As I've said before, competing in the market of cheap products is much harder than competing in the market for quality products. Quality products sell themselves. Think there's more profit in the production of a Honda or a Ferarri? Yeah, and notice who advertises more? Ferrari doesn't have to do much advertising, because the car sells itself...AT A MUCH HIGHER PRICE THAN THE HONDA!!

It may be lonely at the top, but sometimes that's good..if you're the only one selling ---- there.

You guys should think a bit more...both before buying and before becoming a seller.

Re: Selling manifolds: Why it sucks.
 

All good points but also common knowledge. I still make manifolds. A few a month. I sell to just a few customers. It buys car parts and pays for little things. I enjoy doing it. I don't see anyone making a career out of it though.

Re: Selling manifolds: Why it sucks.
 

well said... :)

Re: Selling manifolds: Why it sucks.
 

Amen, I make a few to fund my own car hobby. I can sell them pretty cheap because it is still fun and I'm still learning. But if I had to wake up every morning and know that I was going to have to make this things all day long it would get old within a few minutes.

Later
Randy

Re: Selling manifolds: Why it sucks.
 

sticky please.....

Re: Selling manifolds: Why it sucks.
 

The longer you make them the more you sell.I have been making them for a long ass time and every year I sell a few more than the last.I also make all types of manifolds for many brands of cars.If my goal was to sell alot of them I would design something for a car that has little aftermarket support and sell them on ebay.

Re: Selling manifolds: Why it sucks.
 

200 dollars for 2 days of work = baller cash. I probably make 50 for a day of busting ass in a kitchen :8

Re: Selling manifolds: Why it sucks.
 

Well I currently make good money at my day job. The manifolds would never overtake my current income. Between taxes and SS and med you lose 30% up front.

Re: Selling manifolds: Why it sucks.
 

I have done 4 in a day BTW.This is if they are all the same and I only have to set up machines once.

Re: Selling manifolds: Why it sucks.
 

I am not a professional welder, but I can weld. I dont see why it takes 2 days to make a manifold even if the quality is better than full-race. looking at a top mount manifold it seem like its the easiest one to make, but people take forever.

Re: Selling manifolds: Why it sucks.
 

i can make one in 10 mins flat :P

Re: Selling manifolds: Why it sucks.
 

i can make 10 inverted double back T6 flanged t4/t3 manifolds as long as i got a new spool of flux in the hf 90 amp

Re: Selling manifolds: Why it sucks.
 

Took me 6 hours to make my manifold

id love to start my own welding shop, not just for manifolds but general car fabrication welding

Re: Selling manifolds: Why it sucks.
 

---- full race...

just ---- them and their $1500 manifolds; support the little man buy from someone who isn't a complete douche stain

Re: Selling manifolds: Why it sucks.
 

lol you and full race. I've never seen those guy's act like dicks.

Re: Selling manifolds: Why it sucks.
 

OOOOOR
you can buy a manifold from someone that sells them only AFTER they're made.
Two good things would happen from that:

• Newbies would quit spamming endlessly along the lines of, "where's my manifold from the douchebag (No offense :7 ) with a history that I didn't check.
• The old hands at fabbing would stop being annoying, spamming just as endlessly about, "oooooh this isn't the way to do stuff." Here's a clue. Unless you're a staff member, it's not your damn buisness what someone does! Ya know some of yall are joking around & that's cool. But some of yall are just such pricks LoL!

If you're such an idiot you can't do a background check before buying something. Just keep your ------- mouth shut. You got what you desirved by not checking it out.
If you're such a nice guy you want to go on & on about not buying cheap things, then do something about it. Make quality manifolds & sell them cheaply. Short of that, regardless of who you are, or how right you are when you talk... Nobody really cares. You haven't stopped anyone from buying, or selling anything with all your rants. The newbs are still going to buy stuff that isn't ready to go from people with a history; you're still going to have people taking advantage of that making manifolds, and all three sides are still going to be endlessly bitching about it.


LoL! Seriously. Let it go, oh my god!
;D ;D ;D



Engloid if it bothers you this damn much, why don't you propose a forum rule here to the staff (That many other forums have) stating you can't offer something for hire. If you're going to sell something. It has to be a completed product.
That's how I roll every forum I staff & it keeps all the wankers quiet. If you break the rules, you don't sell period.
Problems solved.

(btw don't get the wrong impression Engloid. You're the best welder I've ever seen, and I agree with everything you just said.)

Re: Selling manifolds: Why it sucks.
 

Thats already how it is here. The only way you can offer a service is sponsorship. If for some reason I make a manifold and its not already sold to my normal customers I then post it in the for sale section. Completed and ready to ship.

Re: Selling manifolds: Why it sucks.
 

Same here, I hate taking orderes and I only do it if it as absolutely neccessary. And even then I don't take money till it is done. This has screwed me a few times, but I still sold the manifold in the end, just took longer.
I have thought about trying a bit harder and taking some orders, but in my mind too many things could go wrong that are out of my control that could cause it all to backfire.

Later
Randy

Re: Selling manifolds: Why it sucks.
 

Why, because they're successful? ::)

Re: Selling manifolds: Why it sucks.
 

engloid, you need to come and visit some time. you must make good money at what you do because i could very easily see you being very successful on your own. why haven't you already done this or am i mistaken? i would really like for us to meet one day. if you are ever up this way some time you will have to let me know. ;)

when i was a sponsor here i never took money until i was ready to ship. that was my policy and it worked great for me. i never pissed anyone off and i built a pretty decent rep because of that one simple thing. customer service should be any entrepeneur's first priority.

Re: Selling manifolds: Why it sucks.
 

i say engloid should come to the all member meet whenever it goes down. I want him to autograph my welder :P

Re: Selling manifolds: Why it sucks.
 

People should also consider the cost of making said manifolds... its not just your time beeing factored in on this... what about the materials, pipes, flanges, bolts, etc... and what about the gas for the welder, mig wire, tig rods, the blades for cutting, sanding discs, wire wheels for polishing, and not to mention the electricity used to run all these fancy tools needed , when you really think about it a out of a 200$ log manifold after shipping your really only making about 100$

becuase with the rising energy cost, the price of metals has gone up...

Re: Selling manifolds: Why it sucks.
 

Ferrari probably makes more profit per unit, but Honda definitely makes more profit overall. Mass producing a "cheap" manifold can be just as profitable, think of Mr. SSauto ;)

Re: Selling manifolds: Why it sucks.
 

Aren't full-race manifolds made by robotic tigs anyways?

So then they don't even really employ welders, they just employ people that run the machine that does the welding.

Excuse the ---- out of me, but I didn't know everybody on HMT was a rich little ---- that can afford full race this and that.

Re: Selling manifolds: Why it sucks.
 

full race geoff is gay i heard

Re: Selling manifolds: Why it sucks.
 

Post of the year.

Re: Selling manifolds: Why it sucks.
 

The full race ones are welded on the runners by robotic tig.The collectors are welded on by hand.

Re: Selling manifolds: Why it sucks.
 

This post was brought up due to he wants all the kids to stop sellin log manifolds for 150 bucks

Re: Selling manifolds: Why it sucks.
 

...and for people to realize that you will buy nothing but a piece of ---- for that much. The guys that sell so cheap don't seem to understand that by selling a piece of ----, at any price, can easily ruin their reputation and future sales.

But, I guess it's a two-fold thing.. dumbasses buy cheap and dumbasses sell cheap.

That's nothing but urban legend. Why has nobody seen this robot? If you had a $150k+ welding setup, wouldn't you want to show it off, as a means of increasing your advertising strategies?

If you spend your money on every piece of ---- that's out there, every time you save up $150, how do you think you'll ever have anything nice? ...or do you? It's your money, your call. Save up for something nice if you want, but if you buy a cheap POS, don't expect it to be really nice, and don't bash the seller for making something that wasn't top notch work.

I don't think anybody here would consider themselves a "mass production" company.

I don't forsee any trips to Canada anytime soon. I hear everybody up there's just a bunch of eh-holes anyway. hehe.. I may be going to Chicago in September for the IMTS show though.
I did work at home for a little bit, but I don't like the stress. I'd rather punch a clock every evening and be done with work...instead of having stuff looming over my head all the time. Of course it's a relative thing though. If I could make twice the money, for the same effort at home, I'd be all over it...but that's not the case.

It doesn't really bother ME, cause I don't have the problem buying stuff here...but it seems that many do. I'm just trying to give some insight to those that think that one seller is the "magic pill" that has a great product at a cheap price...and why it's not really gonna happen. In other words, I think the average buyer doesn't understand the difficulties of selling, and therefore they expect something for next to nothing.

I'm also hoping to influence those that want to start selling to take the time to get good at it before getting moneyhungry and damaging their reputation with poor work.

I'm sure you didn't make top quality stuff in that timeframe also.

Re: Selling manifolds: Why it sucks.
 

4 log manifolds in a day with the equipment I have is slacking.

Re: Selling manifolds: Why it sucks.
 

SlappyNuts, OMG you're right! I've asked Geoff on a couple of occasions about their robotic tig, and have been to their shop numerous occasions, but have never actually seen it! That would be to F'n funny if it doesn't actually exist, and it was just a a bunch of BS from Full Race that they had one.

I'm gonna have to make an effort to see this thing now...

Craig

Re: Selling manifolds: Why it sucks.
 

Someone needs to make a post on HT, and see if they post pics of it

Re: Selling manifolds: Why it sucks.
 

FullRace did post pics of their 3 axis robo welder. Its nothing impressive just some semi-homemade rotating table with a torch

Re: Selling manifolds: Why it sucks.
 

I'd say FR's welder exists simply because the welds around the tubing looks significantly different than the welds on the collector....

As for making manifolds. There are three types of manifold makers in the honda market right now.

1) Kid in the garage/small shop making very affordable manifolds on a budget. Problems, see hotrex and every welder Stealthmode has ever worked with.

2) "Professional Shop" making manifolds for a good price, and offering better than average service and quality. Problem is, these shops generally just weld ---- together much like example 1. Very little R&D into actually how to make a manifold that makes more power than your average manifold.

3) Shops out there to make power. They R&D their product and know their ----. They offer you high quality parts and good customer service and most of all, they make ------- power. The only problem is, their time, product, and effort requires them to charge quite a bit of money in order to make a profit.

Honda Market is full of 1&2. #3 is a rarity.

Re: Selling manifolds: Why it sucks.
 

are you leading me on?

Re: Selling manifolds: Why it sucks.
 

they just blow smoke up your ass and tell you its R&D.

Re: Selling manifolds: Why it sucks.
 

EXACTLY!

Re: Selling manifolds: Why it sucks.
 

Welcome to the racing world


Has far has r&d turbo manifolds are what they are. ---- a log manifold is a log


You nned a good fab/welder more than anything


Has far has port work,cam design etc this is where R&D is needed



Also most import companies in the last 2-3 years have gone belly up or have been bought out. Major players at one time like lightspeed dont even exist anymore and Dc is now run by aem just for examples and these companies did r&d and past.


R&D costs an ass load of money and every kid wants dynos etc of everything and every set up. Its not gonna happen


Simple if someone has been doin what they do for sometime r&d is life. I know what works with what i do i dont need to post it to the world or dyno every single thing

Re: Selling manifolds: Why it sucks.
 

I agree with about 99% of this.

I HATE making manifolds. Too much dicking around for what you make! My business partner is the one who makes our manifold, as he knows how to weld SS as it was his past job so I trust him 3-fold.

I only make manifolds for close friends. He might be making for real customers. but not by orders, have them done then sell.

Re: Selling manifolds: Why it sucks.
 

If I was going to make and sell manifolds, I'd pre-make the head flange welded to the runners/collector for B and D series. Orders would be based upon Turbo flange and wastegate so you'd be able to finish it quickly and get it in the mail. I think that would be the best way for the buyer and seller