My first collector
11-09-2008, 10:29 PM
#11
0.5 BAR
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 132
Re: My first collector
Yup. Hotter, faster, and more filler.
It seems like the bits that "look" ok are more or less just fused, and the bits where filler was added in a reasonably quantity were too cold.
70amps should be hot enough for a decent puddle that actually flows, and that filler rod will wet into, but shouldn't be so hot that you can't keep up (you will probably need to go a bit faster than you're used to though).
Even at 70 amps you can't afford to ---- around much or the puddlewill get too big and things will overheat. Lots of guys are doing sched 10 really slow at like, 40-45 amps, but it's a **** poor way to do it.
It seems like the bits that "look" ok are more or less just fused, and the bits where filler was added in a reasonably quantity were too cold.
70amps should be hot enough for a decent puddle that actually flows, and that filler rod will wet into, but shouldn't be so hot that you can't keep up (you will probably need to go a bit faster than you're used to though).
Even at 70 amps you can't afford to ---- around much or the puddlewill get too big and things will overheat. Lots of guys are doing sched 10 really slow at like, 40-45 amps, but it's a **** poor way to do it.
11-09-2008, 11:19 PM
#12
3.0 BAR
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,811
Re: My first collector
And triple passing:
No-pen root pass
A hot pass that's too cold just to fill it
A backwards cup-walking to fake the welds into looking pro
The funnyest part about it is that they think that's got strength to it... Yet they dont get that the cold passes wont pen, there isn't good fusion at the root toes or base metal. Yet the last pass does nothing more than wash what they've done away - causing unseen thinning of the weld toes. Which is yet another cause of cracking. Even if the size of the weld winds up correct, the welds themselves are not tied in, tied to each other, and the basemetal will yank the thin washed ---- apart LoL
I dont condone erring on the side of hot. I dont condone erring period. But if people dont make the desision to weld it hot enough to even remotely get penitration and fusion... Aint any point in welding your own. tig, wire or otherwise.
Dont practice at 30'ish amps and expect to get faster later on. Get some cheap 3/16-1/4" scraps and start off right!
I dont condone erring on the side of hot. I dont condone erring period. But if people dont make the desision to weld it hot enough to even remotely get penitration and fusion... Aint any point in welding your own.
No-pen root pass
A hot pass that's too cold just to fill it
A backwards cup-walking to fake the welds into looking pro
The funnyest part about it is that they think that's got strength to it... Yet they dont get that the cold passes wont pen, there isn't good fusion at the root toes or base metal. Yet the last pass does nothing more than wash what they've done away - causing unseen thinning of the weld toes. Which is yet another cause of cracking. Even if the size of the weld winds up correct, the welds themselves are not tied in, tied to each other, and the basemetal will yank the thin washed ---- apart LoL
I dont condone erring on the side of hot. I dont condone erring period. But if people dont make the desision to weld it hot enough to even remotely get penitration and fusion... Aint any point in welding your own. tig, wire or otherwise.
Dont practice at 30'ish amps and expect to get faster later on. Get some cheap 3/16-1/4" scraps and start off right!
I dont condone erring on the side of hot. I dont condone erring period. But if people dont make the desision to weld it hot enough to even remotely get penitration and fusion... Aint any point in welding your own.
11-10-2008, 06:39 AM
#13
1.0 BAR
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Renton, WA
Posts: 636
Re: My first collector
If you have already not downloaded the TIG welding video from a torrent (in a sticky above) you need to do it and watch. Also, download Working with piping while you're at it. That will help you greatly and teach a lot.
11-11-2008, 05:11 AM
#14
1.0 BAR
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 397
Re: My first collector
when i weld collectors, i'm welding around 65-75 amps and moving fairly quick. i only do 1 pass as there really isn't a hell of a lot of stress on the collector so a huge 2 pass weld isn't needed. i lake to use .035 or .045 rod on the inside where they converge together. to keep from droping to much filler when i can barely see.
toysrme
i find it funny your still on the whole backwards 3 pass bs you were talking about months ago. and you show me a collector with penetration i would like to see it. but if your talking about a butt weld on sch 10 SS then getting pen. is as simple as going slower at a steady rythim over the joint with say 70-80 amps. and NO filler. pretty simple to then just go in and add filler to "fill" it in. also it adds that nice groove to work with.
toysrme
i find it funny your still on the whole backwards 3 pass bs you were talking about months ago. and you show me a collector with penetration i would like to see it. but if your talking about a butt weld on sch 10 SS then getting pen. is as simple as going slower at a steady rythim over the joint with say 70-80 amps. and NO filler. pretty simple to then just go in and add filler to "fill" it in. also it adds that nice groove to work with.
11-11-2008, 08:41 PM
#15
0.0 BAR
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 0
Re: My first collector
I was playing around a little bit today with trying to move faster and use less filler. I know, the weld in the bottom right just sucks nuts, but how do the rest look? The bottom left portion actually had a decent gap that needed to be filled that is why it is so fat. It is actually 16ga 304 laying on top of sch10 304.
11-12-2008, 12:51 AM
#16
0.5 BAR
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 132
Re: My first collector
Your gas shielding looks pretty good- so that is good start.
You need to not be scared to put some heat in- they still seem cold. You really want the 2 pieces, and the filler you are adding to flow and become one piece of metal.
To me the part at the bottom left is the best part- even though it had a gap.
Welding 16ga to sched 10might not be your best bet from practicing- I would keep to welding stuff that is the same thickness on both sides of the joint.
turbo16hatch,
I disagree that there isn't a lot of stress on the collector, that's probably where the most stress is- especially the welds that attch the runners to the collector.
You need to not be scared to put some heat in- they still seem cold. You really want the 2 pieces, and the filler you are adding to flow and become one piece of metal.
To me the part at the bottom left is the best part- even though it had a gap.
Welding 16ga to sched 10might not be your best bet from practicing- I would keep to welding stuff that is the same thickness on both sides of the joint.
turbo16hatch,
I disagree that there isn't a lot of stress on the collector, that's probably where the most stress is- especially the welds that attch the runners to the collector.
11-12-2008, 02:29 AM
#18
1.0 BAR
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 397
Re: My first collector
Originally Posted by Captain Bondo
turbo16hatch,
I disagree that there isn't a lot of stress on the collector, that's probably where the most stress is- especially the welds that attch the runners to the collector.
11-14-2008, 06:05 PM
#20
3.0 BAR
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,811
Re: My first collector
Turbo a full=pen weld on a sch-10, unmodified (deburred) collector would be penitration through the full minimum thickness. That would be slightly more than the .109 nom thickness of the stainless pipe.
If manifold pictures would quit turning up on various forums, and people quit making wash passes, I wouldn't need to say it. Without calling out names Ive caught more than one pro here and SEVERAL on HMT doing it. Can you find evidance of it now
No. Why Because many people *want* to do it correctly, and as their skill increases, not only CAN they do it correctly, but they WANT too.
If the welder wants to do it gapped to get full pen + root reinforcement, that's the best way for any groove weld. If they do not feel like it, that's their call. If they want to do it in TWO passes. There is zero weld problem with that (just a waste of argon).
The problem, as I have said ad infimum, is that when you make a "wash" pass. You run a very high risk of the weld toes being too thin, and NOT tieing in correctly. This is a problem on any pass. The final pass, or even the first pass. If you have a momentary relapse (all welders are human), you will wash the wall down too far. All of that needs correction before the next weld bead. Prefferably grinding the area, filling. If not filled well, grind again before continuing.
That's all true be that a collector, flange or pipe weld.
I got news for yall. First person producing Honda manis with 100% pen + visual, consistent backside reinforcement will be the best welder making honda manis, and will be able to call their own price premium. The first person doing so will NOT ONLY HALF their welding time, but will be able to call & recieve Full-Race pricing, if not beyond.
If manifold pictures would quit turning up on various forums, and people quit making wash passes, I wouldn't need to say it. Without calling out names Ive caught more than one pro here and SEVERAL on HMT doing it. Can you find evidance of it now
No. Why Because many people *want* to do it correctly, and as their skill increases, not only CAN they do it correctly, but they WANT too.If the welder wants to do it gapped to get full pen + root reinforcement, that's the best way for any groove weld. If they do not feel like it, that's their call. If they want to do it in TWO passes. There is zero weld problem with that (just a waste of argon).
The problem, as I have said ad infimum, is that when you make a "wash" pass. You run a very high risk of the weld toes being too thin, and NOT tieing in correctly. This is a problem on any pass. The final pass, or even the first pass. If you have a momentary relapse (all welders are human), you will wash the wall down too far. All of that needs correction before the next weld bead. Prefferably grinding the area, filling. If not filled well, grind again before continuing.
That's all true be that a collector, flange or pipe weld.
I got news for yall. First person producing Honda manis with 100% pen + visual, consistent backside reinforcement will be the best welder making honda manis, and will be able to call their own price premium. The first person doing so will NOT ONLY HALF their welding time, but will be able to call & recieve Full-Race pricing, if not beyond.
