My first collector
 

It isn't done yet, I still have some welding to do but thought I would share. What do you think. My welds still suck :(

http://www.thezcr.com/gallery/data/5...m/100_2434.JPG

http://www.thezcr.com/gallery/data/5...m/100_2436.JPG

http://www.thezcr.com/gallery/data/5...m/100_2437.JPG

http://www.thezcr.com/gallery/data/5...m/100_2438.JPG

Re: My first collector
 

That looks a lot better that most first tries i have seen. O0

Re: My first collector
 

Your tungsten is dirty. If you dab or contaminate it, stop right away and regrind.

Re: My first collector
 

Black too much rod
Red way too hot
Blue way too cold
Grey poor start & stops and/or inconsistant rod application
Orange undercut, incorrect electrode motion/angles
Purple close but incorrect electrode distance
Green good




Attachment 13225
Attachment 13226
Attachment 13227
Attachment 13228



Ditto CS
Weld hotter and faster
Filler angles are wrong and/or inconsistent when you get it close
Electrode distance is all over the board, travel angle is very inconsistant, work angle is somewhat inconsistant, travel is inconsistant.


Basically um, too much playing with everything after the first mistake, or base metal change (root curves downward while walls curve in) is made. Concentrate very hard on the weld puddle and keep all your angles correct. Weld the next one hotter and move faster. Until you can do the entire thing plan on giving yourself one restart right before the curve drops off.

Looks aight.

Re: My first collector
 

Wow, awesome. Thanks so much for the help. I know my welding has a long way to go and I apreciate all of the words of wisdom. This is all done on a HF Tig to which makes it a little more challanging.

Re: My first collector
 

scratch start FTW!
btw i can't tell are you backpurging? if you're not, that's probably where the contamination is coming from.

at any rate. keep at it, youll get there.

Re: My first collector
 

How far should the electrode be and what angle? It seems if I cool it down anymore, I get a puddle on both pieces of metal but they wont join. Thats when I add rod. I am trying to add as little rod as possible. I need to keep working on it :) Thanks for the help and I will post some more pics.

Re: My first collector
 

You don't want to cool it down more, most of it was abit too cold to begin with.
The tungsten stick-out can varry with the size & type of cup/gas setup. Say 1/16-3/16" on a smaller cup without a gas lens.
Arc length varries. What is it, how hot? For this kind of stuff, if you're in the right heat range say no more than 3/16" and if you get too close, you'll know it. The tungsten jumps the arc into the weld and the base metal jumps to the tungsten.

Re: My first collector
 

I've got a gas lense and I am using a number 5 cup. I am welding Sch10 304

Re: My first collector
 

In the case of all these types of joints. The work angle of the electrode should always be at a 0*. (As in a 90* angle to the joint) It should not be offset.
The travel (push) angle should be 15-20*.
Well, if you want to weld it by the book you'll want 1/16-1/8" stickout. (That cup wont give you much) 105-115amps. Arc length no more than 1/8"
Most guys making these probably would weld that @ 30-60amps because they can't move fast enough. So... Gotta get moving if you're going to do it well.

If you have trouble keeping the arc length under 1/8" throw a cheater lens in the helm so you can actually see what you're doing.

Re: My first collector
 

Yup. Hotter, faster, and more filler.

It seems like the bits that "look" ok are more or less just fused, and the bits where filler was added in a reasonably quantity were too cold.

70amps should be hot enough for a decent puddle that actually flows, and that filler rod will wet into, but shouldn't be so hot that you can't keep up (you will probably need to go a bit faster than you're used to though).

Even at 70 amps you can't afford to ---- around much or the puddlewill get too big and things will overheat. Lots of guys are doing sched 10 really slow at like, 40-45 amps, but it's a piss poor way to do it.

Re: My first collector
 

And triple passing:
No-pen root pass
A hot pass that's too cold just to fill it
A backwards cup-walking to fake the welds into looking pro


The funnyest part about it is that they think that's got strength to it... Yet they dont get that the cold passes wont pen, there isn't good fusion at the root toes or base metal. Yet the last pass does nothing more than wash what they've done away - causing unseen thinning of the weld toes. Which is yet another cause of cracking. Even if the size of the weld winds up correct, the welds themselves are not tied in, tied to each other, and the basemetal will yank the thin washed ---- apart LoL

I dont condone erring on the side of hot. I dont condone erring period. But if people dont make the desision to weld it hot enough to even remotely get penitration and fusion... Aint any point in welding your own. tig, wire or otherwise.
Dont practice at 30'ish amps and expect to get faster later on. Get some cheap 3/16-1/4" scraps and start off right!

I dont condone erring on the side of hot. I dont condone erring period. But if people dont make the desision to weld it hot enough to even remotely get penitration and fusion... Aint any point in welding your own.

Re: My first collector
 

If you have already not downloaded the TIG welding video from a torrent (in a sticky above) you need to do it and watch. Also, download Working with piping while you're at it. That will help you greatly and teach a lot.

Re: My first collector
 

when i weld collectors, i'm welding around 65-75 amps and moving fairly quick. i only do 1 pass as there really isn't a hell of a lot of stress on the collector so a huge 2 pass weld isn't needed. i lake to use .035 or .045 rod on the inside where they converge together. to keep from droping to much filler when i can barely see.

toysrme

i find it funny your still on the whole backwards 3 pass bs you were talking about months ago. and you show me a collector with penetration i would like to see it. but if your talking about a butt weld on sch 10 SS then getting pen. is as simple as going slower at a steady rythim over the joint with say 70-80 amps. and NO filler. pretty simple to then just go in and add filler to "fill" it in. also it adds that nice groove to work with.

Re: My first collector
 

I was playing around a little bit today with trying to move faster and use less filler. I know, the weld in the bottom right just sucks nuts, but how do the rest look? The bottom left portion actually had a decent gap that needed to be filled that is why it is so fat. It is actually 16ga 304 laying on top of sch10 304.

http://www.thezcr.com/gallery/data/5...m/100_2447.JPG

http://www.thezcr.com/gallery/data/5...m/100_2450.JPG

Re: My first collector
 

Your gas shielding looks pretty good- so that is good start.

You need to not be scared to put some heat in- they still seem cold. You really want the 2 pieces, and the filler you are adding to flow and become one piece of metal.

To me the part at the bottom left is the best part- even though it had a gap.

Welding 16ga to sched 10might not be your best bet from practicing- I would keep to welding stuff that is the same thickness on both sides of the joint.



turbo16hatch,

I disagree that there isn't a lot of stress on the collector, that's probably where the most stress is- especially the welds that attch the runners to the collector.

Re: My first collector
 

Yeah, I need to pic a bunch of stuff up to practice on. This is a temporary manifold I am trying to put together for my holset

Re: My first collector
 

the reason collectors break or crack is due to the flanges being warped 9 times out of 10. and the welds from the runners to the collector have nothing to do with the welds and the stress on a collector. completly different.

Re: My first collector
 

True enough- talking about just the welds that just hold the 4 mitered pieces for a 4 cylinder merge together I agree.

Re: My first collector
 

Turbo a full=pen weld on a sch-10, unmodified (deburred) collector would be penitration through the full minimum thickness. That would be slightly more than the .109 nom thickness of the stainless pipe.
If manifold pictures would quit turning up on various forums, and people quit making wash passes, I wouldn't need to say it. Without calling out names Ive caught more than one pro here and SEVERAL on HMT doing it. Can you find evidance of it now??? No. Why??? Because many people *want* to do it correctly, and as their skill increases, not only CAN they do it correctly, but they WANT too.

If the welder wants to do it gapped to get full pen + root reinforcement, that's the best way for any groove weld. If they do not feel like it, that's their call. If they want to do it in TWO passes. There is zero weld problem with that (just a waste of argon).
The problem, as I have said ad infimum, is that when you make a "wash" pass. You run a very high risk of the weld toes being too thin, and NOT tieing in correctly. This is a problem on any pass. The final pass, or even the first pass. If you have a momentary relapse (all welders are human), you will wash the wall down too far. All of that needs correction before the next weld bead. Prefferably grinding the area, filling. If not filled well, grind again before continuing.



That's all true be that a collector, flange or pipe weld.

I got news for yall. First person producing Honda manis with 100% pen + visual, consistent backside reinforcement will be the best welder making honda manis, and will be able to call their own price premium. The first person doing so will NOT ONLY HALF their welding time, but will be able to call & recieve Full-Race pricing, if not beyond.

Re: My first collector
 

i could show you a full pen butt weld, but i don't backpurge, no need unless it is really a expensive peice.

idk about you but you should me 1 place that does 3 passes? go on find picks to back up your retarded statments.

or even a place that caps there welds? rternie? pulsing?

i understand you weld for a living, but cut the speach. you know you can't tell ---- from most of the pics posted by places, as there camera's suck. you should know you can make a ---- weld look good and vise versa with lighting and camera work. pretty simple.

Re: My first collector
 

I dont understand some of what you are asking (I don't do pre-noon on Sunday's either man)
Do you mean a cap pass, or do you mean cap the pipes so you can get a good purge to support the weld? If the last pass is atleast level in height to the base metal, and prefferably slightly above to add reinforcement then the weld does not need a cap pass (or that pass is the cap pass)
You can full-pen the butt weld Props. I simply want people to GET to full pen - Full pen isn't dabbling the back side of the weld. It's having that weld bead on the INSIDE of the pipe. If you're doing lay-wire. There will literally be a solid bead on the inside. If you're dipping, you'll have your dips show up slightly past the backside of the weld. Looks alot like when you stick weld with a 6010 rod.
What's rterniea?
Pulsing lowers the skill level by lowering the average heat output while giving the user a blast of heat to help the fusion and grain structure. Makes raising the travel speed higher easier too. Alot of guys pulse. Alot of guys do it manually? Few guys in this forum have done it on & off and posted about doing it. Even H-too-the-butt-sex has posted some pulsing stuff. Not sure what you're getting at with the pulsing???



Aight, Ill shoot you a PM about washing the welds back down when I get a chance. Lot of ---- to sift through on that subject.

nice so far

wow that thing looks amazing