AaronZ34

And? Saving weight is worth it. Removing the spare tire has one really bad side affect. You don't have a spare tire. Same with running a half tank of gas. You only have half the gas. Saving weight in the exhaust system has NO side affects. You still have a full tank, and the stock reliability.

You're redoing your charge piping with steel, because of its strength? Is your charge piping a structural component of the car or what?

Considering your charge piping is structural, I'm only left to assume your exhaust is too. I'm not sure about the HMT way to do it, but I'd ---- a dead horse before I flux core welded my frame components. And by the way, your exhaust also has a few undesirable side affects, that his aluminum version doesn't. First, it isn't legal on multiple counts. Second, it's loud as ----. Third, it's bad for the environment. And fourth, it adversely affects your car's handling for a few reasons.

Cutting weight is part of the design concept in getting my car as fast as I can, not an afterthought. That's the big difference between your build and mine, and why mine would absolutely destroy your's on any track. Oh, I passed a full emissions check not one month ago.

AaronZ34

So the aluminum piping weighs 35% as much as steel. Your exhaust is about 4 feet. That means his can be almost 11 1/2 feet long, and weigh the same. Now since it's highly unlikely he needs that much pipe, he can substitute a cat converter and a muffler. His exhaust is better than your's is. It can be quieter, legal throughout, environmentally friendly, and have better affect on handling, if it's designed well.

There are reasons to use a steel exhaust, you just can't seem to think of them.

signorelli21

No the charge piping is not structural obviously, however my exhaust manifold is and I don't have the equipment to weld aluminum so I'm going to use stainless for everything.

My charge piping isn't structural, in fact its currently held in place with mechanics wire and JB weld, who the ---- said anything about welding frame components? do you even actually work on your own ---- or what? the rest of that ---- i could care less about, I have two other cars and two bikes so this is far from being my daily driver, its just a project, and like i said I half assed everything so i could hurry up and get it done.


Running aluminum exhaust to save weight is still gay and I could give a ---- less about how great your car is, from the way you sound it was built by someone other than you and people that don't work on their own cars get zero respect from me.

AaronZ34

So if your charge piping isn't structural, then why are you using the steel piping for its strength like you said you were? Or were you full of ----, and you're really using it because you can't afford to do it right.

Well, you said youw ere using the steel for its strength, so I assumed it must be structural, like a frame component. Then you said you fluxxed it, and I wondered why you'd use such a halfass method of welding for something that's structural.

It must be gay, I mean, what kind of dumbfuck would use aluminum when they could use steel? Those car builders that come themselves lotus sure are a bunch of retards, they could have used steel for the frame YAY.

Did you really just ask if I built my car? You did. Oh boy, it's time for me to have some fun.

Here's MY garage after I pulled the old engine out:



Here's the short block that I disassembled to port/polish the heads and upgrade the valvetrain:



Here's the long block that I reassembled:



Here it is after I put the Stage 3 Kevlar clutch, 8lb aluminum flywheel (Let me ------- guess, I should have used steel?), and the transmission together:



And here it is on the cradle that I modified, using the engine mounts that I built:



And here it is with the manifolds and valve covers that I put on, and the fuel rail that I modified:



Here it is as I put the engine in the car:



And the wiring harness that I made from scratch:



The fuel lines that I made:



The topside engine mount that I made:



And, as if you haven't been royally ------- owned by now, the headers. Let me guess, I paid someone to build these? Not quite. I built them. From a box of steel tubing. Tuned equal length primaries (1.75 X 20), formed 3-1 collectors, mandrel bent Y-pipe with dual 2.5 feeds, and the 38mm wastegate flange. All ceramic coated, inside and out, with stainless V-band flanges.







The custom intake adapter that I built:



The oil pan that I modified to add 1.5qts capacity:



And what it all looks like:



Now my current project. Mind you I did everything you see below, and will end up doing the rest as well:

The engine cradle that I highly modified, along with the engine mounts that I built:





The 8lb aluminum flywheel (Should I have used steel?):



The 32 valve, DOHC, 4.6l Northstar V8 that I rebuilt:







And the headers that I am building. As if my previous tuned equal length ones weren't good enough, I figured I'd step it up on this build. So we have long tube, tuned equal length, 180* crossover headers. Do you even know what the ---- that means?






So, I think I do a fair bit of work myself, what do you think?

AaronZ34

I've got more. Another Fiero with a 3.4l DOHC swap that I did:





Another Fiero with a 3.4l DOHC swap that I did:





And my 55 Bel Air, that I've been doing a frame off resto on for the past 8-9 years or so. It's got a blown 406 cubic inch small block that I built.

/Engine2.jpg[/IMG]

AaronZ34

Ready to shut the ---- up, or should I go on? Because I can.

signorelli21

well so looks like I was wrong, your not completely worthless after all, although looks like you need to run a bit more heat or turn your wire speed down, doesn't look like your getting full penetration, its amazing that for such an advocate of aluminum and high end ---- you cheaped out and went with mild steel for all your manifolds, then had them ceramic coated.

Anyways I don't give a ---- if your a nascar crewchief thats been in the business for 30 years, it still doesn't make your original point anymore valid, so if the original poster wants to take off his stock exhaust and replace it wth aluminum thats great, and if he saves some weight in the process thats great too, and if he shaves a 1/10th or so off his 1/4 by doing so and is consistent enough to actually verify the results then thats ------- outstanding, but weather or not its worth all that effort is ultimately up to him, I say save your money and boost your ---- if you want to go faster.

AaronZ34

I am getting full penetration, that I can assure you. I used mild steel because my MIG is setup for mild, and I don't want to TIG the headers, because it's double the work with no benefits, when the coated mild steel will last just as long, and be just as durable. And it costs less, even coated. I spend the money where it's worth spending. That's why my turbocharger cost more than your car.

How are you going to sit here, and argue that steel is better? It's laughable really. It's like saying cast iron intake manifolds are better because if you slam a boulder on them they won't break. Well whoopty ------- doo.

signorelli21

lol, your mig is setup for mild huh? well that explains alot. You know that you could have spent less money by using stainless and achieved the same thing, not to mention it will last longer and be less likely to crack. I paid 50 bux for my civic, hopefully your turbo is worth more than that, mine is.


Well because you see, I am not a moron, and understand how various types of metal react to heat and vibration, and how in turn this can effect wave pressure in your exhaust and lots of other things that are explained in the two articles below.

here, read this, pay special attention to the chart at the bottom-
Stainless_article

then read this one-
Aluminum_article

Maybe then you can enlighten us with your vast knowledge.

AaronZ34

Not really. So I setup my MIG for stainless, now what about all my engine mounts? I don't want to use the stainless supplies to weld mild, and I don't want to have to switch back and forth all the time. Besides, I weld far more mild then I do SS. The entire exhaust system, including headers, hasn't had a failure yet, pushing 15,000 miles so far. And when I took it to the dyno, I had the headers, Y-pipe, turbo, and over a foot and a half of the downpipe glowing bright, held that way for almost a half hour. They aren't going to fail.

Let's look at the cost. My bends were $10 a piece, at Burns Stainless, the same bends are $45 a piece. I needed 20 of them. The piping alone would cost $700 more. Now add in welding materials for SS, figure $75. The SS head flanges would be $200, mine were $40. Finally, what about the mufflers? Have custom made SS mufflers? Spintech, the brand my muffler had to be, doesn't offer their's in SS. Custom muffler, sounds cheap to me! Muffler aside, I'm looking at $1175 in materials alone. In mild, I spent around $540, and that's with my entire exhaust system ceramic coated, inside and out. At half the price, I'll stick with mild.

You sure talk like one. Before I go through the articles, be aware that they are put out by a company, meaning a place that profits, from selling stainless. You think they are going to say anything negative about their product? Now, onto their assumptions.

My engine compartment is mostly enclosed, and gets really ------- hot. My headers/Y-pipe are completely wrapped, with only the downpipe exposed. My headers have not completely failed, have not broken apart, and have no sent death particles into my turbocharger. Good call Burns.

I'm not arguing whether SS is better, there is no argument, it is. But, what do the strengths matter, when I'm not exceeding them on either material? Again, it's like a cast iron intake manifold. That's ------- awesome it can stand an airplane rolling over it. When's the last time an airplane drove over your intake manifold? If you aren't exceeding the load limits, then why use a material that costs $500+ more? It'd be like using steel frames for airplanes. Yes now they are stronger! On a side note, the aluminum was plenty strong enough, and weighed 1/3 as much.

This is a really blanket statement. I wouldn't either, on a car like mine, that glows the steel tubing quickly. But on a very low specific output Honda, with an oversized exhaust, and a lot of airflow through the exhaust, what's the problem with it? There are hundreds of thousands of people running around with aluminum exhausts. It is perfectly acceptable if the car isn't boosting hard, isn't making a whole lot of power, and has the support to cool the pipes (Airflow). Mine is boosting hard, has zero airflow around the exhaust, and is making a lot of power (For the size/displacement). That is why I'm not running an aluminum exhaust. Because I'm at the point where it would fail, I've exceeded its limitations. So I went up to the next suitable material, mild steel.