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FMU and AFC Hack need some help

Old 02-28-2004, 04:40 PM
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Default FMU and AFC Hack need some help

O.K. I'm about to finish making my own turbo kit for my 91' Civic HB with a B16a OBD1 motor. I made my own turbo kit before with my old ZC motor with the common way everyone turbo's their D series with a HF mani. Now I have a B series and I'm running a equal length tubeluar turbo manifold, Tail waste gate , GREDDY FMIC, and a basic Turbonetics T3/T4 Turbo same AR as all the DRAG and Rev. Hard kits come with. Now last time I ran DSM 450cc's and just a AFC and my ZC saddly blew up a week after I installed the kit which I wasn't supprised since I was running stock ingition and dogged the **** out of my ZC for 2 years before the turbo went on.

I'm now doing things right this time with manegment I running 310cc injectors this time , FULL MSD ignition with MSD COIL , Wires and SCi-PLUS ignition Box. But I'm in woundering about something. This local street racer thats everyone knows around here and is good with hondas says that I'm making a big mistake if I don't run a FMU. I said no I'm running a AFC which cancels out the FMU plus I hate FMU's cause they dump fuel when not needed. My friend was running a Turbo'd LS Teggy With the same set up I have and was running a AFC and a FMU. Do I really need both. Or am I right and all I need is my AFC again ? I wouldn't ask such a possibly dumb question but I just want to make sure I'm right and he's wrong. Or is it not a bad idea to have both ? Thanks guys for your help
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Old 02-28-2004, 05:27 PM
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Default Re:FMU and AFC Hack need some help



You don't need an afc and fmu. Also, with your setup, I don't know why you are running 310s instead of 450s. how much boost are you planning on?
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Old 02-28-2004, 05:31 PM
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Default Re:FMU and AFC Hack need some help

So, this time you're "doing it right" and you're downsizing the injectors? That doesn't make sense.

If you are going to use an FMU with an AFC, I would only use a 1:1 ratio, otherwise that is way too much fuel and tuning is going to be hell.
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Old 02-28-2004, 07:29 PM
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Default Re:FMU and AFC Hack need some help

O.K. Dr.boost I'm sorry but I should have explained why. I'll explain WHY I'm running 310's instead of 450's. When I ran the 450's on my ZC I was always running hella rich and couldn't lean it out enough. Of course like I said I had stock ZC ignition so that wasn't helping much but I was planing on running 310's cause I felt like I had more to work with. I was also thinking of running NON-turbi DSM injectors cause I hear they're like 380's. By the way does anyone know what cc's NON-Turbo ecplise's are ? I keep getting flack for going from 450's to the 300's range but like I said for some reason the thing was just running to damn rich so I have two friends running 310's on B series motors and both said they're perfect. Why do you think I should go with DSM 450's again DR. ?
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Old 02-28-2004, 08:02 PM
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Default Re:FMU and AFC Hack need some help

What blew on your ZC? I'm guessing ringlands? I don't se how you could have been running rich at -50% on the AFC. That seems impossible since -50% would put it at ~225cc which is smaller than stock, so either your AFC was fucked up or your injectors were. Also, what was the fuel pressure set at? No FMU right? Something had to have been wrong.

310cc injectors will not allow you to "scale" the map sensor signal far enough to run more thna a few pounds of boost. Not only that, it won't supply enough fuel for anything above that.

If you were staying N/A that might be fine, but not for boost.
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Old 02-28-2004, 08:08 PM
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Default Re:FMU and AFC Hack need some help

Using an AFC *does* affect your timing. If you're using an afc, the unit is lowering the map sensor voltage your ecu sees, so when the ecu looks up how much advance/retard to run in your ignition maps, it is using more advance than usual.

I guess I still don't understand why you bother with 380s when you could have 450. eventually you'll want more boost than the 380s can handle (I don't know how much boost that is though) and you'll need bigger injectors. If you can't get it to idle right with an safc, then you're doing it wrong. Go with the bigger injectors up front.
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Old 02-28-2004, 08:26 PM
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Default Re:FMU and AFC Hack need some help

He said 310cc, not 380cc. :P Even worse.
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Old 02-28-2004, 11:29 PM
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Default Re:FMU and AFC Hack need some help

*** Sorry this is long ******

O.K. I thought I put a post up WAY long ago when I blew my ZC up but how I blew it up was I dropped a valve. Not sure how it happen. The motor was running real rich and I could tell cause I could smell the raw fuel. I even set my B&M adjustable FPR at 20 PSi and still running pegged A/F gauge and smelling fuel. Very wierd though. Literally 20 second before it blew up the car ran perfect and I thought I worked the bugs out... So I hit the gas and I'm getting it running into 3rd gear and then I heard a loud clunk and I shut the car off right away and coasted to my shop. I pulled my spark plug out of #4 cyclinder and to my shock the spark plug was literally smashed then I yanked the motor and pulled the held off to see a golf ball size hole in my #4 piston and the valve shaft was smashed into the head.

I couldn't even pry the valve off the head the motor was trashed and pieces of piston everywhere and I then decided I was done with ZC's and went B series.I guess I'll run 450cc injectors this time. Like I said before with my ZC I was running stock timing no retard. Stock Dizzy, Stock plugs, Stock wires but doubled the injector size. I leraned my lesson and upgraded my whole ignition system all MSD goods that I took off my other HB that I have that came with the car. Also I was running stock fuel pump. I'm told I should now with the B16 run a 255lb."DR.Boost":..... If I put the 255lb intank pump in my car now with no turbo will the car run o.k. or will it run to rich.

I have my AFC still hooked up so I could lean it out. It's a b*tch to drop the tank as all EF owners know so I want to get it outof the way. I have a B&M Cammando Adjustable FPR and my AFC on my B16 now. So Say I'm running all my MSD ignition stuff. I retard the timing alittle and run a AFC with 450cc's and a 255lb pump and I'll be all right. Also I'm running a Wide band O2 sensor kit this time so I get a accurate A/F ratio reading this time. I should have everything covered. Does that sound better. I'm only running 8 PSi max right now cause I don't want to blow this motor up. I have a second B16 motor that I'm building on the side to handle 14-16 PSi.

But when my kit first goes on I will be only running 8 PSi and I'm having the car DYNO tuned that week already have stuff scheduled for the dyno run so everything is going to plan the only thing I need is FUEL just cause I'm stuck cause I'm hearing mixed stuff. THANK YOU for all your guys help.
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Old 02-28-2004, 11:32 PM
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Default Re:FMU and AFC Hack need some help

ALSO is there any way by looking at or using a volt meter or something to tell if a injector is a peak hold or sachurated style ( no resistor box ) injector type. My friend says he has RC's 380's I believe that he'll sell me for $60 cause I've done alot of work for him but he's not sure what style injectors they are. They are for hondas though. Any way I can tell beside just sticking them on my car and seeing if I throw a injector CEL ? thanks
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Old 02-29-2004, 02:57 AM
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Default Re:FMU and AFC Hack need some help

First of all if you're only looking to run 8 lbs of boost, your injectors and the afc hack should be sufficient. The fuel pump is okay I guess, but the fpr is overkill I think.

Second, yes, you can tell what kind of injectors. RC engineering only makes 370cc injectors, not 380. But they make that size in both peak-and-hold and saturated style. So, take a volt meter and measure the resistance between the two contacts on the injector. 2.5-3 ohms is peak and hold, while 12-16 ohms is saturated.
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