discussion AFC without WB
01-28-2006, 12:26 PM
#1
0.5 BAR
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 187
discussion AFC without WB
hi starting with a quote
I was thinking the same, if it would be possible to drive with just a management like:
AFC
450cc
stock lambda + a/f gauge (for crappy readings of the a/f ratio)
just tune it rich, and there isnt much trouble? like -40% idle till 6000rpm -32%
most people will say, NOO youll need a WB+controller. but its just for a more accurate a/f ratio. so just finetuning.
some say NOO you need to know the throttle position. but you can only do 2 settings in de afc like: 1. closed loop like 12 settings? 2 openloop again like 12 settings.
am i right?
...as shitty as they are a narrowband a/f meter will at least show u if you runnin 2
close to lean under boost...(again i know this sucks)...but you can at least
set it rich....and there are enough posts of roughly what you should be running
as far as safc settings...i am a believer in the hack..and even though dyno time
is recommended....it can be done by yourself with enough research!!! good luck!! ...as
shitty as they are a narrowband a/f meter will at least show u if you runnin 2 close to
lean under boost...(again i know this sucks)...but you can at least set it rich....and there
are enough posts of roughly what you should be running as far as safc settings...i am
a believer in the hack..and even though dyno time is recommended....it can be done by yourself
with enough research!!! good luck!!
close to lean under boost...(again i know this sucks)...but you can at least
set it rich....and there are enough posts of roughly what you should be running
as far as safc settings...i am a believer in the hack..and even though dyno time
is recommended....it can be done by yourself with enough research!!! good luck!! ...as
shitty as they are a narrowband a/f meter will at least show u if you runnin 2 close to
lean under boost...(again i know this sucks)...but you can at least set it rich....and there
are enough posts of roughly what you should be running as far as safc settings...i am
a believer in the hack..and even though dyno time is recommended....it can be done by yourself
with enough research!!! good luck!!
AFC
450cc
stock lambda + a/f gauge (for crappy readings of the a/f ratio)
just tune it rich, and there isnt much trouble? like -40% idle till 6000rpm -32%
most people will say, NOO youll need a WB+controller. but its just for a more accurate a/f ratio. so just finetuning.
some say NOO you need to know the throttle position. but you can only do 2 settings in de afc like: 1. closed loop like 12 settings? 2 openloop again like 12 settings.
am i right?
01-28-2006, 12:41 PM
#2
1.0 BAR
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 425
Re: discussion AFC without WB
Nope. Honestly why waste your time. The narrowband shows anything under 14:1 being "rich" in reality that is obviously way to lean. And on top of that your timing is through the roof. Hack = death. Honestly go through all the posts and figure it out for yourself. It is just tricking the ecu to think the the map sensor is sending less of a voltage then it really is. It is not the way to go about tuning anything boosted or anything with huge injectors.
Sell the AFC and run uber or crome if this is a honda application. That is the answer.
Also tuning a car just by guessing is not tuning a car at all. That is just asking for it to wash rings or blow a ring land.
Sell the AFC and run uber or crome if this is a honda application. That is the answer.
Also tuning a car just by guessing is not tuning a car at all. That is just asking for it to wash rings or blow a ring land.
01-28-2006, 03:26 PM
#4
0.5 BAR
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 187
Re: discussion AFC without WB
how come, some people mange to make it work without an WB?
what info do i need from the WB other than the a/f?
ill retard my ignition by 2 degree on the distributor
dont give me the option for chipping, because it is not possible in the Netherlands for under 500$
what info do i need from the WB other than the a/f?
ill retard my ignition by 2 degree on the distributor
dont give me the option for chipping, because it is not possible in the Netherlands for under 500$
01-28-2006, 03:32 PM
#5
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: discussion AFC without WB
Originally Posted by taiajam
how come, some people mange to make it work without an WB?
Originally Posted by taiajam
what info do i need from the WB other than the a/f?
Originally Posted by taiajam
ill retard my ignition by 2 degree on the distributor
Originally Posted by taiajam
dont give me the option for chipping, because it is not possible in the Netherlands for under 500$
01-28-2006, 03:54 PM
#6
0.5 BAR
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 187
Re: discussion AFC without WB
so those peepz just got lucky on ther rich setup?
however i can use some sensor to mesure my lambda with a WB on my school.
ive heard of a boost retard stuff DSM but is 3 degree @ the distributor enough on 8 psi?
on 98 octane gas. and intercooler + (maybe a DIY water-N-tercooler)
on this forum ive found a formule to calculate the settings for the injector compensation.
do i need a street run or a dyno run for the A/f mesurement. or can i just put the car in free-gear, and press te gaspedal?
however i can use some sensor to mesure my lambda with a WB on my school.
ive heard of a boost retard stuff DSM but is 3 degree @ the distributor enough on 8 psi?
on 98 octane gas. and intercooler + (maybe a DIY water-N-tercooler)
on this forum ive found a formule to calculate the settings for the injector compensation.
do i need a street run or a dyno run for the A/f mesurement. or can i just put the car in free-gear, and press te gaspedal?
01-28-2006, 04:52 PM
#7
1.0 BAR
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 425
Re: discussion AFC without WB
Originally Posted by taiajam
so those peepz just got lucky on ther rich setup?
however i can use some sensor to mesure my lambda with a WB on my school.
ive heard of a boost retard stuff DSM but is 3 degree @ the distributor enough on 8 psi?
on 98 octane gas. and intercooler + (maybe a DIY water-N-tercooler)
on this forum ive found a formule to calculate the settings for the injector compensation.
do i need a street run or a dyno run for the A/f mesurement. or can i just put the car in free-gear, and press te gaspedal?
however i can use some sensor to mesure my lambda with a WB on my school.
ive heard of a boost retard stuff DSM but is 3 degree @ the distributor enough on 8 psi?
on 98 octane gas. and intercooler + (maybe a DIY water-N-tercooler)
on this forum ive found a formule to calculate the settings for the injector compensation.
do i need a street run or a dyno run for the A/f mesurement. or can i just put the car in free-gear, and press te gaspedal?
It is not a test of getting the car to run rich, that is not the issue. The issue is the timing.
Now with 98 octane and a water injection kit you could do it. But you still can't control your ignition timing very well as you could with a chipped ecu. And seriously.. a chipped ecu shipped to the netherlands can be done for under $200. And on top of that all you would need would be a chip burner and a wideband from your school or dyno. So for around $300 you could more than likely tune your car on crome or uberdata yourself.
01-28-2006, 05:39 PM
#8
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: discussion AFC without WB
Originally Posted by taiajam
do i need a street run or a dyno run for the A/f mesurement. or can i just put the car in free-gear, and press te gaspedal?
For tuning purposes, you have to actually drive on the stree (or go on the dyno) because that is the only time you will be boosting to get A/F results under boost.
You can't tune your car in your driveway
(unless you got a dyno and in that case I hate you)
01-28-2006, 11:14 PM
#9
0.5 BAR
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 187
Re: discussion AFC without WB
1) 240/450 = 0.53
2) 0.53 - 1 = -0.46
3) -0.46 * 100 = -46
So we have a 46% difference, we add our 5% for injector latency compensation, which leaves us with these settings:
1000 - 40%
1500 - 40%
2000 - 39%
3000 - 38%
4000 - 37%
--- VTEC set to 4400 RPMs ---
5000 - 35%
6000 - 34%
7000 - 34%
8000 - 34%
so thats calculated. so theoraticly its rich enough with these settings?
so the prob is the ignition. whats the most common used stuff for the ignition? retart it on the distributer?( how many... degrees?) 7-8 psi
or boost-retarder (heard of it, never seen it. Dunno how it worx
i do not hava a dyno
but if i wanna mesure my labda with a WB i need a loch cable for a street run:P so i need a controller+laptop.. :/
isnt it possible to hookup an A/f gague on a WBsensor? like a WB from a porche? or VW, audi?
2) 0.53 - 1 = -0.46
3) -0.46 * 100 = -46
So we have a 46% difference, we add our 5% for injector latency compensation, which leaves us with these settings:
1000 - 40%
1500 - 40%
2000 - 39%
3000 - 38%
4000 - 37%
--- VTEC set to 4400 RPMs ---
5000 - 35%
6000 - 34%
7000 - 34%
8000 - 34%
so thats calculated. so theoraticly its rich enough with these settings?
so the prob is the ignition. whats the most common used stuff for the ignition? retart it on the distributer?( how many... degrees?) 7-8 psi
or boost-retarder (heard of it, never seen it. Dunno how it worx
i do not hava a dyno
but if i wanna mesure my labda with a WB i need a loch cable for a street run:P so i need a controller+laptop.. :/isnt it possible to hookup an A/f gague on a WBsensor? like a WB from a porche? or VW, audi?
