Why do DSM's suck?
07-05-2007, 12:46 AM
#41
0.0 BAR
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 0
Re: Why do DSM's suck?
Originally Posted by slo_crx1
No, they have the potential to somehow utilize forced hot air and still make some sort of power out of it.
Their valvetrain is nothing special, garbage IMO, their redline is limited even on built motors. Pretty much everything AWDstyles mentioned I concur with. Not to mention every homo kid that's seen the first F&F movie thinks he has to get an eclipse to be mad ricer fast, so they get abused with no maintenence.
Their valvetrain is nothing special, garbage IMO, their redline is limited even on built motors. Pretty much everything AWDstyles mentioned I concur with. Not to mention every homo kid that's seen the first F&F movie thinks he has to get an eclipse to be mad ricer fast, so they get abused with no maintenence.
every homo kid like the ones that rice out millions of hondas
07-05-2007, 01:24 AM
#42
1.0 BAR
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 464
Re: Why do DSM's suck?
On the contrary, revs mean everything when you're limited to 2.0L of displacement to make your power with.
The 4G63 is an amazingly strong stock motor and nothing else. Mitsu went overkill on the motor so that it would last in spite of everything else they half-*** (the rest of the car). They don't make amazing power. In fact it's a hell of a lot harder to make power out of a 4G63 than it is out of an B or even D series motor. Will it hold 400whp on a bone stock motor? Sure. But who cares if it cost you an arm and a leg and a year of your life to hit 400hp. Then if you want more you have to build the motor anyway, just like any Honda motor. The difference being that your built B-series will crank out stupid power like nobodies business and your built pile of ---- 4G63 will struggle to break 500hp because the heads don't flow for ---- even though I can fit my entire fist into one intake port and the motors don't rev for ---- (at least not with any reliability). And even if you do make 500+hp, what does it matter? You'll still go 2 seconds and 20mph slower than an equivalant powered Honda because you weight 1,000lbs more and you'll be getting towed home on a flat bed within a week because your alternator, coil pack, coil driver, ecu, tranny, transfer case, driveshaft, shift cables, shock towers, or etc etc etc decided to give out at complete random.
The 4G63 is an amazingly strong stock motor and nothing else. Mitsu went overkill on the motor so that it would last in spite of everything else they half-*** (the rest of the car). They don't make amazing power. In fact it's a hell of a lot harder to make power out of a 4G63 than it is out of an B or even D series motor. Will it hold 400whp on a bone stock motor? Sure. But who cares if it cost you an arm and a leg and a year of your life to hit 400hp. Then if you want more you have to build the motor anyway, just like any Honda motor. The difference being that your built B-series will crank out stupid power like nobodies business and your built pile of ---- 4G63 will struggle to break 500hp because the heads don't flow for ---- even though I can fit my entire fist into one intake port and the motors don't rev for ---- (at least not with any reliability). And even if you do make 500+hp, what does it matter? You'll still go 2 seconds and 20mph slower than an equivalant powered Honda because you weight 1,000lbs more and you'll be getting towed home on a flat bed within a week because your alternator, coil pack, coil driver, ecu, tranny, transfer case, driveshaft, shift cables, shock towers, or etc etc etc decided to give out at complete random.
07-05-2007, 01:28 AM
#43
0.0 BAR
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 0
Re: Why do DSM's suck?
Originally Posted by AWDstylez
On the contrary, revs mean everything when you're limited to 2.0L of displacement to make your power with.
The 4G63 is an amazingly strong stock motor and nothing else. Mitsu went overkill on the motor so that it would last in spite of everything else they half-*** (the rest of the car). They don't make amazing power. In fact it's a hell of a lot harder to make power out of a 4G63 than it is out of an B or even D series motor. Will it hold 400whp on a bone stock motor? Sure. But who cares if it cost you an arm and a leg and a year of your life to hit 400hp. Then if you want more you have to build the motor anyway, just like any Honda motor. The difference being that your built B-series will crank out stupid power like nobody business and you build pile of ---- 4G63 will struggle to break 500hp because the heads don't flow for ---- even though I can fit even though I can fit my entire fist into one intake port and the motors don't rev for ---- (at least not with any reliability). And even if you do make 500+hp, what does it matter? You'll be getting towed home on a flat bed within a week because alternator, coil pack, coil driver, ecu, tranny, transfer case, driveshaft, shift cables, shock towers, or etc etc etc decided to give out at complete random.
The 4G63 is an amazingly strong stock motor and nothing else. Mitsu went overkill on the motor so that it would last in spite of everything else they half-*** (the rest of the car). They don't make amazing power. In fact it's a hell of a lot harder to make power out of a 4G63 than it is out of an B or even D series motor. Will it hold 400whp on a bone stock motor? Sure. But who cares if it cost you an arm and a leg and a year of your life to hit 400hp. Then if you want more you have to build the motor anyway, just like any Honda motor. The difference being that your built B-series will crank out stupid power like nobody business and you build pile of ---- 4G63 will struggle to break 500hp because the heads don't flow for ---- even though I can fit even though I can fit my entire fist into one intake port and the motors don't rev for ---- (at least not with any reliability). And even if you do make 500+hp, what does it matter? You'll be getting towed home on a flat bed within a week because alternator, coil pack, coil driver, ecu, tranny, transfer case, driveshaft, shift cables, shock towers, or etc etc etc decided to give out at complete random.
lmao honda making power like nobodies buisness...
ive seen about 100x more pile of ---- hondas than dsm cars
07-05-2007, 01:31 AM
#44
1.0 BAR
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 464
Re: Why do DSM's suck?
Originally Posted by random-strike
easier to make 400hp on a b or d series motor. funny...
lmao honda making power like nobodies buisness...
ive seen about 100x more pile of ---- hondas than dsm cars
lmao honda making power like nobodies buisness...
ive seen about 100x more pile of ---- hondas than dsm cars
Just because the motor can HANDLE 400hp, doesn't mean it's easy to MAKE 400hp.
You're arguing against a DSM owner that's putting down DSMs. This is going to be a very difficult arguement to win.
07-05-2007, 01:37 AM
#45
3.0 BAR
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,729
Re: Why do DSM's suck?
Originally Posted by AWDstylez
Go to Honda-Tech and count the 400+hp Hondas. Go to DSMtuners and count the 400+hp DSMs (can count them on my hands and name each person on that 100,000+ member board).
Just because the motor can HANDLE 400hp, doesn't mean it's easy to MAKE 400hp.
You're arguing against a DSM owner that's putting down DSMs. This is going to be a very difficult arguement to win.
Just because the motor can HANDLE 400hp, doesn't mean it's easy to MAKE 400hp.
You're arguing against a DSM owner that's putting down DSMs. This is going to be a very difficult arguement to win.
07-05-2007, 03:50 AM
#48
1.5 BAR
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,037
Re: Why do DSM's suck?
DSM's suck because of people who think they are amazing. They really do. It is so easy to up the power with a few simple (and some free) modifications, and stupid people do those, and nothing to support them.
The engine bay is already way packed, so it is way hot. Most of the electrical problems, and seemingly random problems (shift cables, coolant hoses) are caused because people up the boost, and increase the heat load, and do nothing to keep that stuff cool. Nor do they do any maintanence (like inspecting everything on a regular basis), so of course they have alot of problems. Honda's don't have much to the engines, no oil cooler lines, the water pump x-over tube is behind the engine, not wedged into the turbo. Plus the engine bay is almost always cooler, even compared stock to stock.
The kaarman type MAF is probably the worst invention ever too. Really is the hardest way to do the same thing.
I live in IA, and DSM's here still out number Honda's, and have for as long as I can remember. My uncle, brother, and quite a few of my friends have owned and modified a DSM at some point, and I've been suckered into wrenching on most them. The designs aren't terrible, the parts are usually decent quality. Some of the stuff is overcomplicated by Honda standards, but I would bet a ******** that 90% of the problems with DSM's were preventable prior to failure had the owner taken the time to look them over once in awhile.
The engine bay is already way packed, so it is way hot. Most of the electrical problems, and seemingly random problems (shift cables, coolant hoses) are caused because people up the boost, and increase the heat load, and do nothing to keep that stuff cool. Nor do they do any maintanence (like inspecting everything on a regular basis), so of course they have alot of problems. Honda's don't have much to the engines, no oil cooler lines, the water pump x-over tube is behind the engine, not wedged into the turbo. Plus the engine bay is almost always cooler, even compared stock to stock.
The kaarman type MAF is probably the worst invention ever too. Really is the hardest way to do the same thing.
I live in IA, and DSM's here still out number Honda's, and have for as long as I can remember. My uncle, brother, and quite a few of my friends have owned and modified a DSM at some point, and I've been suckered into wrenching on most them. The designs aren't terrible, the parts are usually decent quality. Some of the stuff is overcomplicated by Honda standards, but I would bet a ******** that 90% of the problems with DSM's were preventable prior to failure had the owner taken the time to look them over once in awhile.
