Fuel the hate! *I am a Nihilist*
10-02-2004, 06:35 PM
#31
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Re:Fuel the hate!
Originally Posted by Dr.Boost
Originally Posted by Rx7toStarion
religion is like and -------... everyone has one
10-02-2004, 10:01 PM
#32
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Join Date: Dec 2003
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Re:Fuel the hate!
Originally Posted by biggmike
Originally Posted by SinisterCRX
The Bible tells you to be in church, to be with fellow followers of Christ. It tells you to obey your parents and to love them. It says to share the gospel with your friends, nowhere does it say that you should ignore everyone. Reading the Bible doesn't only tell you how to gain access to Heaven, its not like the friggin Egyptian's Scrolls of the Dead man.. Read it sometimes and you'll see what it answers. (And no, I'm not expecting you to read the whole thing, that would take a long long time)
Originally Posted by SinisterCRX
I would be scared as heck, but I would say "Yes". Reminds me of Columbine.. kid goes up to the girl, puts the gun in her face and says "Do you believe in God?" And she said yes. He pulled the trigger.
I myself do not fear death, I just fear pain.
I myself do not fear death, I just fear pain.
I can understand what you mean with the wanna-be's. I asked one girl once what religion she was, she came back with "I'm a Christian". I said why.. she said "Because I was born in America"
Idiots..
Originally Posted by Travis
Originally Posted by Dr.Boost
Originally Posted by Rx7toStarion
religion is like and -------... everyone has one
10-02-2004, 10:15 PM
#33
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Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 21,479
Re:Fuel the hate!
Originally Posted by SinisterCRX
Atheism, then?
No. Nothing. You can't pin me to a certain group because I don't follow any certain guidelines or beliefs. There might be a god and there might not be one. I can't say there is one, but I also can't say there isn't. Who the ---- can?
I won't go through my life worshiping a fictitious character. Wouldn't you feel stupid at the end of your life if you found out you based your entire life, your morals, and your beliefs on something that never existed?__________________
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10-03-2004, 12:22 AM
#34
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Join Date: Dec 2003
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Re:Fuel the hate!
Originally Posted by Dr.Boost
Originally Posted by SinisterCRX
Atheism, then?
No. Nothing. You can't pin me to a certain group because I don't follow any certain guidelines or beliefs. There might be a god and there might not be one. I can't say there is one, but I also can't say there isn't. Who the ---- can?
I won't go through my life worshiping a fictitious character. Wouldn't you feel stupid at the end of your life if you found out you based your entire life, your morals, and your beliefs on something that never existed?My two cents is that the world would be a lot better place if their were no religion involved. It is the root of all that is evil.
10-03-2004, 12:26 AM
#35
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Join Date: Dec 2003
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Re:Fuel the hate!
Originally Posted by ToeJam
Originally Posted by Dr.Boost
Originally Posted by SinisterCRX
Atheism, then?
No. Nothing. You can't pin me to a certain group because I don't follow any certain guidelines or beliefs. There might be a god and there might not be one. I can't say there is one, but I also can't say there isn't. Who the ---- can?
I won't go through my life worshiping a fictitious character. Wouldn't you feel stupid at the end of your life if you found out you based your entire life, your morals, and your beliefs on something that never existed?My two cents is that the world would be a lot better place if their were no religion involved. It is the root of all that is evil.
"The Love of money is the root of all evil" :P
10-03-2004, 12:27 AM
#36
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 167
Re:Fuel the hate!
Obviously bigmike you’re no more than an ignorant person and I’m going to prove that in a moment…
As mentioned before, translations can be very biased and it seems all the translations that you’ve mentioned are PROBABLY written by people such as yourself you hate Muslims and Islam.
Well, this another translation:
3:20 “So if they dispute with thee, say: "I have submitted My whole self to Allah and so have those who follow me." And say to the People of the Book and to those who are unlearned: "Do ye (also) submit yourselves?" If they do, they are in right guidance, but if they turn back, Thy duty is to convey the Message; and in Allah's sight are (all) His servants”
Seems to me there’s a pretty big difference between the two translations and if read closely I see absolutely no trace of hate against non-Muslims in this “Sura”. It just tells Muslims to try and “convey the Message (of Islam)” to non-Muslims which in no way implies that Muslims should harm non-Muslims in any way.
Another significant difference in translation:
3
2 Say: "Obey Allah and His Messenger.: But if they turn back, Allah loveth not those who reject Faith.
Allah (God) does not HATE someone because he or she is not a believer (or Muslim), but does not LOVE them as well.
A more decent translation:
60
“There is for you an excellent example (to follow) in Abraham and those with him, when they said to their people: "We are clear of you and of whatever ye worship besides Allah. we have rejected you, and there has arisen, between us and you, enmity and hatred for ever,- unless ye believe in Allah and Him alone": But not when Abraham said to his father: "I will pray for forgiveness for thee, though I have no power (to get) aught on thy behalf from Allah." (They prayed): "Our Lord! in Thee do we trust, and to Thee do we turn in repentance: to Thee is (our) Final Goal”
This verse is NOT against Abraham and his people, for your information Islam recognizes all prophets of Judaism and Christianity and they all are mentioned in the Koran.
Not being “friends” with Jews and Christians simply warns of heavily relying on them, but in no way does Islam promote hate towards Jews and Christians.
The same verse you used, different traslation:
52 “(They are fond of) listening to falsehood, of devouring anything forbidden. If they do come to thee, either judge between them, or decline to interfere. If thou decline, they cannot hurt thee in the least. If thou judge, judge in equity between them. For Allah loveth those who judge in equity”
If you read it thoroughly it’s definitely a beautiful verse and is even better in Arabic. “If thou judge, judge in equity between them. For Allah loveth those who judge in equity” For you to include this verse you just proved yourself wrong… this verse proves that Islam has nothing against non-Muslims. God himself is telling Mohammed (the Prophet) to be equitable between non-Muslims!! Bigmike… people will start to love Islam because of you J
Well… that is just a stupid assumption of yours! How is fighting unbelievers going to give unbelievers a chance to go to heaven by becoming Muslims? I doubt any non-Muslims would be fond of Islam if they see Muslims “fighting” them. You contradict yourself and certainly this reasoning of yours is not that of Muslims. And who told you that Muslims are not assured of going to heaven unless they die in Jihad? This is certainly NOT true as Jihad is not one of the Five Pillars of Islam and the concept of Jihad itself is misunderstood. Jihad doesn’t necessarily involve fighting and killing people; Jihad can simply be trying harder to be closer to Allah (God) and to pray more consistently (for example). In no way is killing people a form of Jihad (conditions may apply), only extremists take it to such extents which is certainly untrue. You say… “refusing to fight Jihad is a very bad deed”, there is no need now for me to prove you wrong and people now understand what Jihad is! It’s simply voluntary!
Now I need to ask you a question! Why are you lying? You are not a Muslim and you definitely show your lack of knowledge of Islam, so how is it that you make-up these fallacies? Killing a non-Muslim for the sake of it is definitely NOT acceptable and if you ask any Muslim scholar he or she would say so with no doubt. Muslims are NOT allowed to steal from ANYONE!! Nor kill ANYONE!! And what is that you say about Jizya? Muslims did not take property from non-Muslims in their expansions, but rather whoever did not adopt Islam as their religion they would have to pay a “Jizya” which is just a tax, as Muslims would have control over the country and provide it with the army, etc… The Koran does not tell us that non-Muslims as evil, it’s just that they would be full of sin, etc… which even a Christian Priest would admit!!
First of all I need to tell you that if not studied carefully, an inexperienced person will seem to find “contradictions” in the Koran. You definitely messed up this last part, you barely know what you’re talking about! The Koran recognizes the Torah and the Bible, BUT criticizes the fact that they were altered!
For those of you who are Christians, bigmike is not criticizeing Islam only, but rather Christianity and Islam!
Well I have to agree that MOST Muslim countries are full of corruption unfortunately. And I have to tell you that this is only due to the lack of faith of leader and people. Not because of Islam, if you look back in history you’ll find that when Muslims followed Islam correctly we were prosperous from Spain all the way to China. The riches of Christians and Jews definitely don’t come from their sinfulness and that is not true in the verses you provided.
Well, you definitely got it all wrong! Islam gave women the right to choose who to marry, the right to inheritance, in Islam women and men complete each other! Read this verse:
4:19 “O ye who believe! Ye are forbidden to inherit women against their will. Nor should ye treat them with harshness, that ye may Take away part of the dower ye have given them,-except where they have been guilty of open lewdness; on the contrary live with them on a footing of kindness and equity. If ye take a dislike to them it may be that ye dislike a thing, and Allah brings about through it a great deal of good”
I guess these feminists are starting to like Islam! You still think women are oppressed in Islam?? Well, if you still do, PM me and I’ll send you a 19 page paper I wrote on Women’s Rights in Islam!!
The bottom line is YOU HATE MUSLIMS (bigmike). The Koran never refers to “the West” but rather non-believers, you are making up waaaaay too many fallacies!
Bigmike, all I have to say to you is that you have more hate inside of you towards Muslims that any Muslim has towards westerners!!! At least any Muslim I’ve seen.
As mentioned before, translations can be very biased and it seems all the translations that you’ve mentioned are PROBABLY written by people such as yourself you hate Muslims and Islam.
Originally Posted by biggmike
1. Unbelievers are those who do not accept Islam, especially Jews and Christians:
To those who have received the Scriptures [Jews & Christians] and to the Gentiles say: 'Will you surrender yourselves to Allah?' If they become Muslims they shall be rightly guided; if they pay no heed, then your only duty is to warn them. God is watching all His servants.
Sura 3:20
To those who have received the Scriptures [Jews & Christians] and to the Gentiles say: 'Will you surrender yourselves to Allah?' If they become Muslims they shall be rightly guided; if they pay no heed, then your only duty is to warn them. God is watching all His servants.
Sura 3:20
3:20 “So if they dispute with thee, say: "I have submitted My whole self to Allah and so have those who follow me." And say to the People of the Book and to those who are unlearned: "Do ye (also) submit yourselves?" If they do, they are in right guidance, but if they turn back, Thy duty is to convey the Message; and in Allah's sight are (all) His servants”
Seems to me there’s a pretty big difference between the two translations and if read closely I see absolutely no trace of hate against non-Muslims in this “Sura”. It just tells Muslims to try and “convey the Message (of Islam)” to non-Muslims which in no way implies that Muslims should harm non-Muslims in any way.
Originally Posted by biggmike
2. Because unbelievers do not accept Islam, Allah hates them and does not guide them:
Say: 'Obey Allah and the Apostle.' If they pay no heed, then, surely, God does not love the unbelievers." Sura 32
Say: 'Obey Allah and the Apostle.' If they pay no heed, then, surely, God does not love the unbelievers." Sura 3
23
2 Say: "Obey Allah and His Messenger.: But if they turn back, Allah loveth not those who reject Faith.Allah (God) does not HATE someone because he or she is not a believer (or Muslim), but does not LOVE them as well.
Originally Posted by biggmike
You have a good example in Abraham and those who followed him. They said to their people: 'We disown you and the idols which you worship besides Allah. We renounce you: enmity and hate shall reign between us until you believe in Allah only.".... Sura 60
60
“There is for you an excellent example (to follow) in Abraham and those with him, when they said to their people: "We are clear of you and of whatever ye worship besides Allah. we have rejected you, and there has arisen, between us and you, enmity and hatred for ever,- unless ye believe in Allah and Him alone": But not when Abraham said to his father: "I will pray for forgiveness for thee, though I have no power (to get) aught on thy behalf from Allah." (They prayed): "Our Lord! in Thee do we trust, and to Thee do we turn in repentance: to Thee is (our) Final Goal”This verse is NOT against Abraham and his people, for your information Islam recognizes all prophets of Judaism and Christianity and they all are mentioned in the Koran.
Originally Posted by biggmike
Believers, take neither the Jews nor the Christians for your friends. They are friends with one another. Whoever of you seeks their friendship shall become one of their number. Allah does not guide the wrongdoers. Sura 5:51
Originally Posted by biggmike
4. Muslims will see the sins of unbelievers plainly, both in non-Muslim society and in dealings with non-Muslims:
5
2 “(They are fond of) listening to falsehood, of devouring anything forbidden. If they do come to thee, either judge between them, or decline to interfere. If thou decline, they cannot hurt thee in the least. If thou judge, judge in equity between them. For Allah loveth those who judge in equity”If you read it thoroughly it’s definitely a beautiful verse and is even better in Arabic. “If thou judge, judge in equity between them. For Allah loveth those who judge in equity” For you to include this verse you just proved yourself wrong… this verse proves that Islam has nothing against non-Muslims. God himself is telling Mohammed (the Prophet) to be equitable between non-Muslims!! Bigmike… people will start to love Islam because of you J
Originally Posted by biggmike
5. Therefore, Muslims must fight unbelievers both to limit sin and give unbelievers a chance to go to heaven by becoming Muslims. (Only Muslims can go to heaven, but Muslims are not assured of going to heaven unless they die in Jihad. Muslims who do not fight Jihad will have their good deeds weighed against their bad deeds. Refusing to fight Jihad is a very bad deed.)
Originally Posted by biggmike
6. Now here's the rub - the Koran does share many of the moral rules of the Bible. Although the Koran says moral rules like don't kill and don't steal only apply between Muslims - Muslims can kill non-Muslims, take the property of non-Muslims as tribute (called Jizya, this was the cause of the Barbary Pirate War in the early 19th century), take their wives, or make non-Muslims slaves - there are enough similarities that the modern, post-Christian West looks as evil to Muslims as Koran tells them it will look.
Originally Posted by biggmike
11. Koran is full of contradictions. One of the strangest is Koran says it confirms the Bible, and tells Muslims to read Torah and the Gospels. Koran tells Muslims that Jews and Christians - the People of the Book - don't keep their own scriptures and don't teach them to others.
For those of you who are Christians, bigmike is not criticizeing Islam only, but rather Christianity and Islam!
Originally Posted by biggmike
13. CS readers know that God's moral rules like don't steal and don't lie are essential to free markets and prosperity. While Islam says Muslims should not lie or steal from each other, corruption is rampant in Muslim countries, because they don't have the Holy Spirit to help them keep the Commandments. The Koran perversely tells Muslims that the riches of Christians and Jews come from our sinfulness while the poverty of Muslims is a test from Allah to see who loves prosperity more than Islam
Originally Posted by biggmike
14. Last, Koran adds a rule that can't be found in the Bible. Where the Bible says that there are neither male nor female in Christ, and that God is no respecter of persons, Koran tells Muslims that men are superior to women. The West's Feminist movement thus looks evil and sinful to Muslims.
4:19 “O ye who believe! Ye are forbidden to inherit women against their will. Nor should ye treat them with harshness, that ye may Take away part of the dower ye have given them,-except where they have been guilty of open lewdness; on the contrary live with them on a footing of kindness and equity. If ye take a dislike to them it may be that ye dislike a thing, and Allah brings about through it a great deal of good”
I guess these feminists are starting to like Islam! You still think women are oppressed in Islam?? Well, if you still do, PM me and I’ll send you a 19 page paper I wrote on Women’s Rights in Islam!!
Originally Posted by biggmike
The bottom line is that Muslims hate the West because the Koran tells Muslims that the West rejects Islam, and consequently is evil.
Bigmike, all I have to say to you is that you have more hate inside of you towards Muslims that any Muslim has towards westerners!!! At least any Muslim I’ve seen.
10-03-2004, 12:33 AM
#37
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Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 21,479
Re:Fuel the hate!
^^^^^^HOLY QUADNIE POST BATMAN!!!!
Atheism, then?
No. Nothing. You can't pin me to a certain group because I don't follow any certain guidelines or beliefs. There might be a god and there might not be one. I can't say there is one, but I also can't say there isn't. Who the ---- can? I won't go through my life worshiping a fictitious character. Wouldn't you feel stupid at the end of your life if you found out you based your entire life, your morals, and your beliefs on something that never existed?
Agnostic: NOUN: 1a. One who believes that it is impossible to know whether there is a God. b. One who is skeptical about the existence of God but does not profess true atheism.
My two cents is that the world would be a lot better place if their were no religion involved. It is the root of all that is evil.
Well I'll be damned.......
I still don't claim to be anything and you can't make me. :P
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Originally Posted by ToeJam
Originally Posted by Dr.Boost
Originally Posted by SinisterCRX
Atheism, then?
No. Nothing. You can't pin me to a certain group because I don't follow any certain guidelines or beliefs. There might be a god and there might not be one. I can't say there is one, but I also can't say there isn't. Who the ---- can?
I won't go through my life worshiping a fictitious character. Wouldn't you feel stupid at the end of your life if you found out you based your entire life, your morals, and your beliefs on something that never existed?My two cents is that the world would be a lot better place if their were no religion involved. It is the root of all that is evil.
I still don't claim to be anything and you can't make me. :P
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10-03-2004, 12:41 AM
#39
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Re:Fuel the hate!
Originally Posted by Dr.Boost
I still don't claim to be anything and you can't make me. :P
Just shut up and get in your little box. You didn't think you were the only one who felt that way, did you?
10-03-2004, 12:48 AM
#40
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Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 21,479
Re:Fuel the hate!
Originally Posted by ToeJam
Originally Posted by Dr.Boost
I still don't claim to be anything and you can't make me. :P
Just shut up and get in your little box. You didn't think you were the only one who felt that way, did you?
I don't want to be a part of it. 
Ummmm......I think god grew from a grain of wheat and morphed into a rock and then formed Earth. Don't tell me there is a certain religion/group for that......is there? 
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