What's up! Honda Virgin! *****NWS*****
 

Hey guys,

I was lucky and got my 4th Gen prelude for dirt cheap, like FREE!! I needed a beater since my VR4 is getting too beastly to drive comfortably on the road.

Now, I want to turbo the 'lude. Nothing crazy, since I don't want to spend much money. It's an Si with the stock H23A1, engine and 5 speed.

I happen to have a 2G DSM manifold, Evo3 O2 housing and an Evo 8 FMIC.

Now the questions have arisen with fueling and engine management. I am a Mitsu guy, from the beginning, so the thought of a boosted aluminum blocked car, kinda scares me. I don't intend on building the engine too crazy, because I want to be able to put power to the, not turn my tyres into expensive black vapour.

For turbo I plan on using an MHI Evo 3 16G turbo, because of it quick spool, and the fact that I put down almost 350 whp at 19 psi in my Talon. The only thing that would leave would be engine management. I am going to be keeping the boost at about 6 or 7 psi, for the moment, so 450cc injectors should be sufficient.

Now my main question I guess, is would an SAFC be sufficient for should I just go with the Hondata. I am staying Non-VTEC, btw. Thanks guys.

Re: What's up! Honda Virgin!
 

That's because Mitsufeces experience isn't worth much.

H23 cranks = failure, they break like clockwork. H23 blocks are the same thing as the H22A1, FRM bores that don't like forgings. I don't like the coated Mahle pistons meant to drop in to FRM sleeves, the coating is fragile and as soon as it gets the least bit of abuse it dissappears and the engine comes apart. Further, the bottom oiller Honda engines aren't the most robust. Some people have had some good luck extracting power from H23 bottom ends, but frankly you have one of the worst engines with one of the weakest transmissions available, stuck in a heavy chassis that won't move terribly fast even boosted.

If you had a D16 or a B-series things would be a little different. With the exception of the CRV block, all D and B drivelines are robust.


AFC = failure. Welcome to advancing your ignition timing under boost - the LAST thing you want to do. Hondas don't have knock sensors that band-aid poor tunes like DSM do, even the Hondas equipped with KS don't use them when WOT as they are just for trimming ignition timing at part throttle cruise.

Hondata = sues it's userbase and it's freeware alternatives in order to attempt to dominate the market. You won't find much support for it here, and all of the pgmfi.org derived softwares available are either equivalent or better for LESS money.


PS - you are a n00b and it is considered HMT tradition to post an intro thread with pics of your car, a senence or two about yourself, and most importantly PORN. Brace yourself for a lot of people being really really rude until you get the PORN bit correct.

Re: What's up! Honda Virgin! NWS
 

Well, fortunately, I'm not a boosted noob. I've been building and running turbo cars since I was 15 years old ( BTW, I'm 31 now).

I have only blown up one car in my entire time with the mitsus, and that was a big FUBAR on my end ( Boost spiked to 25 PSI on a fairly stock 91 Talon that was tuned for 17 psi) and all it did at that point was blow the HG. My current Mitsu, is running great at 23 psi on a 50 trim, with 680s, VPC/GCC set up. I street tuned it using that with an LM-1 Wideband set up, set to 11.3 AFR.

As for the H23, I wasn't going to be making a beast out of it. If I wanted to build another fast car, sure as hell wouldn't be a Honda. This is going to be a car that will be entertaining, with some autox track time.

And Intro, My name is Craig, a 31 year old systems engineer who likes making cars faster than they should be. I have owned 6 turbo mitsus, 7 Nissans, 2 of which were turbo.

Money shots of the Galant.

Attachment 22930

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The 'Lude

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n...104_141554.jpg



And of course, the pr0n!!

http://slave1.imagebeaver.com/files/...nds.org039.jpg Yummy!!!

Re: What's up! Honda Virgin! *****NWS*****
 

not sure if i like the beaver or would rather have a red X.

and good luck with the prelude and go with crome or uberdata for fuel managment.

Re: What's up! Honda Virgin! *****NWS*****
 

Fixed. The Beav is MUCH nicer. :-)

Re: What's up! Honda Virgin! *****NWS*****
 

Sharp car's, Just rock a nice hmt kit at a moderate boost level, you should be fine. AFC might be ok on those DSM's but if you want to do it right you'll chip the ecu and run crome.

Re: What's up! Honda Virgin! *****NWS*****
 

Your porn is deficient, but it's almost completely offset by the fact you aren't a toolbag or an idiot. Welcome! ;)

Re: What's up! Honda Virgin! *****NWS*****
 

For the cheap a dsm mani, turbo and 450's will bolt up with a little effort.

Re: What's up! Honda Virgin! *****NWS*****
 

The 2g manifold will bolt up to the h23 head with a little drilling on the bolt holes it's a common setup that people have been doing for years.
An evo3 turbo at around 10 psi will make about 200 hp to the wheels. thats a decent power level for the goals you have.

JD isn't being dramatic about the weakness of h23's though. Anything more then a simple 10 psi setup and they break like a 13 year old girl with R Kelly.

for tuning search crome or ectune and check out pgmfi.org. Tuning a honda is really easy with some research and a little patience you can make it rain.

Re: What's up! Honda Virgin! *****NWS*****
 

Galant VR4's are one of the most awesome cars that Mitsu brought to America, since they didn't want to "fix" the Evo III GSR for 'Mericans.

Re: What's up! Honda Virgin! *****NWS*****
 

Thanks for the welcome guys. Where do you guys post your pr0n, so I don't have to worry about forgetting to put the NWS in the title. :-)

And thanks for the info. I have been looking at what needs to be removed from the Lude to fit the turbo. 1st on the agenda is to move the battery to the boot. I want to try to keep the AC going, so a mitsu turbo may not be the best route because of the outlet location. Too much piping, IMHO.

Now, being that the engine has 161k on it, I am thinking about rebuilding it for reliable boost application. So 9:1 compression pistons, upgraded rods, and now that I know they crank is weak, that will be ditched as well. I want it to handle about 10 psi reliably, without getting scared of blowing the bottom end.

Re: What's up! Honda Virgin! *****NWS*****
 

Balanced H22 stocker should be perfectly fine for that. H23's are a bit of an anomaly

Re: What's up! Honda Virgin! *****NWS*****
 

If it's only a 10 psi setup and you don't want to use the h23 block you can use an f22b1 block you could buy one from a pick and pay or somewhere like that fo 100 bucks or so. The f is basicaly the same block as the h23 it just has cast iron sleeves that can handle boost prety well.

Bigdaddyvtec ran a stock f22b1 for about 6 months at around 15-17 psi Ive had mine at 11-12ish psi on an evo8 turbo for a year now.

Re: What's up! Honda Virgin! *****NWS*****
 

when will you turbo a mans car :-*

Re: What's up! Honda Virgin! *****NWS*****
 

We keep it out of the tech forums, just in GD and Porn forums, but if you have NSFW or NWS in the title no one cares.

projekteg/Kevin Thackston made 500+ off of a stock H23 bottom end, and there are a bunch of other people who've had great luck out of them. They are the exception to the rule, however.

H and F series are all related and parts interchange to a large degree. With the exception of H22 none of the H/F were very well balanced, unlike the more fluent D's and B's. All the F-series are good for getting 140-180K on them and starting in with rod knock... H23 do this as well, but their cranks are famous for breaking when a bearing tries to spin. The oil pumps wear out easily in the high mileage cars, too. H23/H22 both have FRM bores which don't play well with forgings, which is unhappy.

If it were me I'd get one of the JDM F22B's someone else mentioned and lay 10 psi into it with a good tune. Stock for stock, the F22B won't have as much ooomph, but under boost it'll far outstrip an H23. If you feel like building an engine later, toss your H23 head onto the F22 block w/ forged internals.

Here's the last H23 I tuned, it was a pretty nice setup and I was surprised by the power: http://forum.ectune.com/viewtopic.php?t=428