Such thing as reliable LS VTEC?
 

I just wanted to know before i go out and buy a GSR swap. Since obtaining a LS block and VTEC head is so much cheaper. So my question is that will LS VTEC engine last after a period of time? Or do i have to properly build it with sleeves, pistons, rods,etc...?

Re: Such thing as reliable LS VTEC?
 

ls blocks require work rod bolts,vtec water oil pumps and so forth

Re: Such thing as reliable LS VTEC?
 

no my question is how reliable are LS VTEC? Not what part is needed. Since I read alot about LS VTEC and how they are not meant to have longevity. And another fine example is Jeff (Abaz) LS VTEC. It didnt last. ???

Re: Such thing as reliable LS VTEC?
 

Which LS/VTEC? I remember the one he did with a free b16 head and reused a headgasket and someother ----. Or are you talking about the one in the tech project section?

Re: Such thing as reliable LS VTEC?
 

These are things that are required to make an Ls/Vtec relaible. Guys tend to think that by slapping on an 8500rpm head the a 6700rpm bottem end will stand up to those revs.

The rod bolts stretch do to the rotating inertial forces, bearing can't handle it, Oil and Water pumps on an ls are designed for an effieciency around 3500-5000rpm.

The things above + bearings are needed to spin an Ls/vtec like a b16 or GSR.

Re: Such thing as reliable LS VTEC?
 

i think what he is goin towards is...if he does ls vtec will it last like a factory b series motor...and your answer to this is NO UNLESS u do some of the things these guys have mentioned but still wont be as reliable as a factory b series but will be pretty close if u build it right and treat it right :D

Re: Such thing as reliable LS VTEC?
 

I have to say I totally dont agree with what many people think about ls/cr vtec motors. I have been on a totally stock b20z bottom end, stock oil pump/water pump for 10k plus miles and its seen 7500-8k on a daily basis and it runs perfect. I think a lot of the information is ------ around by people reading something online and never acutally doing it. And also how can one say "my ls'vtec blew because of a stock oil pump" when in all reality you beat the ---- out of it every day for a year and it finally blew up, it could be tons of things.

Re: Such thing as reliable LS VTEC?
 

Jeff's lasted plenty long for alot of f'in boost and mileage wise. If he would of ran 6 psi it would proably still be drivin around now

Re: Such thing as reliable LS VTEC?
 

all b series oil pumps after like 98 are the same, the water pumps arent any different its the amount of teeth. its simple, you match the water pump to the timing belt. honestly will a LS vtec be as reliable as a HONDA build b18c? IMHO no because honda simply build awsome motors stock. without a main girdle and oil squirters i dont see it being AS reliable. that being said how reliabe is any motor one you start swapping parts around? adding cams, different pistons, raising redlines, i dont think a LSvtec will any less reliable than a gsr motor thats been worked.

now you take a LS vtec build it right (ie measure bearing cam journal piston to wall clearances ring gap ect) and use OEM parts and youll have a damn reliable motor.

Re: Such thing as reliable LS VTEC?
 

YUp basically hit on the head. Any serious built it be turbo,nitrous,all motor is gonna lose alot of relaiblity. Stock ls/vtec rebuilt with oem parts and done correctley w/ a 8000 rpm rev limiter will last proably longer than most people stay in the racing scene

Re: Such thing as reliable LS VTEC?
 

your stock oil pump is the oil pump the b18b needs. the water pumps are the same depending on the timing belt you use.

i had one, it died, but because the oil pump went out.

also someone mentioned bearings, you dont need different bearings.

Re: Such thing as reliable LS VTEC?
 

The only reason for the oil squirters is to help cool the piston temps to try and keep detonation and any other heat related stress on the down-low. Honestly, i've never seen a big difference with them in or out if the engine temp is kept under control. Also, from my experience and what i've seen others do to their ls/vtec's, the whole rumor with the oil and bearing problems mainly seems to come from the fact that a vtec ends up putting more oil up top for the head during vtec engagement, and they end up starving the bottom end because the oil pump is starving for oil. It's a simple fix...called keeping tabs on everything, and making sure your oil level's up. Just my .02

Re: Such thing as reliable LS VTEC?
 

people with bearing problems w/ ls vtec's once again is slappin a vtec head on a 160k block that already needs a rebuild. Vtec doesnt safe everything

Re: Such thing as reliable LS VTEC?
 

make sure you buy a light whight crank pully off ebay for maximum reliability ::)

Beau

Re: Such thing as reliable LS VTEC?
 

speaking from experience... if you beat the $hit out of any motor it won't last forever, ls/vtec GSR ITR CTR none of them. Yes, some will last longer but, it is inevitable that if you race it , you will kill it. If you build an ls/vtec with VTEC oil pump(ie, 96+ oil pumps are all the same as a vtec one not 98+)new water pump/timing belt, and Rod bolts/head studs. It should be close to a GSR or ITR in reliability, with the only main diff. being no girdle. Honestly though too, unless you have a B16 top half already laying around, you'll probably spend as much as a GSR setup :-\

Re: Such thing as reliable LS VTEC?
 

i daily drive and beat my ls/vtec, its been turboed once, i have arp rod bolts, shot peened rods, vtec oil pump, new ls water pump, ls timing belt,. arp head studs, cometic head gasket, and i have had it for about a year now, runs fine, my head gasket it kinda bad now, but i have a new one, its from taking the head off and not replaceing it... but it runs good, i take it to 8k alot, and run it at the track. its a low 14 sec na motor, in a 90 integra, has a few little things, but i would deff build it, a few people i kno have spun a rod baring by not puting the right ---- in or not puting it together properly for longitivity, the only thing i go threw is tranis, dam cable b series...

Re: Such thing as reliable LS VTEC?
 

What are you saying.. my 40 dollar pulley sucked? ;)

There are lots of good points in this thread, I'd probably still have mine if I didnt boost the ---- out of it and drive it so hard. It is very possible to have a "reliable" ls/vtec

Re: Such thing as reliable LS VTEC?
 

yeah and my motors would probably stay together longer if i ran 8psi all the time too. but what fun would that be right?

for the past few days ive been banging the z6 with 15psi.

Re: Such thing as reliable LS VTEC?
 

Yes, there is. It doesn't to be properly built from the ground up though. The 31mm intake valve flycuts in the LS pistons absolutely LOVE the 33mm intake valves in the V-TECH heads at 8000 rpms. You should, too! Post pictures when it comes apart. PS, if you don't have sufficient oil pressure to activate V-TECH with the LS oil pump, just ground the VTS to the block and everything will be happy. You don't need all that excess oil pressure anyway. :P

Keeping the stock LS rod and crank isn't a bad thing. Plenty of B20/V-TECH properly built, dangling heavy OEM 84mm slug at the end of the rod, running 8500 rpms daily with long term reliability. In a big power situation, with all the compressive + tensile loading between torue production and high rpms, it's not going to be as good as a GSR or B16 rod which are a bit beefier. You need to plan the engine accordingly. LS/V-TECH is a non-stock parts combo and surprise surprise, Gomer! things don't go together in a friendly stock fashion. There are a few things that need to be massaged + addressed to make LS/V-TECH reliable, it's all well documented and a little netsearching will be very rewarding.

Personally, between the expense, hassle, and work for a V-TECH head there are other, better, cheaper things you can do to raise knock limit - things that don't trash the gearboxes quite so fast with high rpm shifting. But, who cares about that when you can have MAD TITE 3RD GEAR V-TECH Y0! If your intake and exhaust are hogged out + oversized enough, you can really hear the V-TECH when it switches on, and that is all that matters.

Re: Such thing as reliable LS VTEC?
 

LS-VTEC and B20-VTEC are absolutely reliable as long as you take the safety precaution and upgrad the oil pump. water pump. rod bolts and head studs. and dont abuse the living ---- out of it everyday.

my buddy is running a B20vtec in his G3 integra for about 2 1/2 years now. stock bottom end with a GSR head. redlines it here and there. Car has been taken to California before (10-15 hour each way) and still runs perfectly fine, not a single problem. other then the shift linkage getting ripped out of the tranny, but that was because his brother went over bumps straight on with the car being too low.

Re: Such thing as reliable LS VTEC?
 

4000kms on my LSVtec build and no probs.

Build it right and beat the ---- out of it. Just maintain it and it will be good to you.

Re: Such thing as reliable LS VTEC?
 

Yeah, i believe that if you build it correctly it will last as long as any other b-series motor.

Re: Such thing as reliable LS VTEC?
 

can i use my stock b16 head studs?got my b18b long block but the stock ls head studs are gone?

Re: Such thing as reliable LS VTEC?
 

get some arp

Re: Such thing as reliable LS VTEC?
 

V-TECH? ::) C'mon Joe...you're slippin ;)

Re: Such thing as reliable LS VTEC?
 

I've been running an LS VTEC for almost 2.5 years, and about 15k or so. Reliability will lie within how you put it together.

As for the water pumps, yes they are different, on both sides. One is a 19 tooth and the other a 22 tooth for the belt side, and the actual prop sizes are different. The B16 is actually the smallest, then B18A/B then the C's. The greater the number of teeth on the gear, the higher in the rpm range the pump has a greater efficiency. In theory, you want a B18C pump on there, but in reality a stock one will work. Tho I have a B18C pump.

As for oil pumps, pretty much the same story. B16 is the smallest but has a higher eff high in the rev band...yada yada

As for gidling and so forth. I recommend it, hell the Type R has two supports, one more over the GSR. If you want reliability without benchmarking motors in a lab, copy what engineers do. Look at the new K20A, the oil pan is cast aluminum for heat dissipation and bottom end strength. But the K24 don't have it...hmmmm not hard to figure out why.

As for cost... lets break it down to my costs in canadian funds when I originally built my motor 2.5yrs ago
B16A3 - 1000
B18B - 800
Girdle & caps - 85
New bearings (rod and mains) - 165
Rings - 80
ARP studs - 180
Water pump - 120
Timing belt - 130
Oil Pump - 90
Oil line kit - 190
misc gaskets and sealant - 150
Total 2990

Yet a GSR motor at the time was 3500, and a Type R was 5000. Plus this motor is rebuilt now. I have beaten many GSR powered vehicles, H22 powered civics (surprised me, I leave this to supporting mods)....hell I hang with one friends silvia on stock boost and Twin turbo Rx7 stock....

This motor regularly gets up to redline, and dragged weekly in niagara. You shouldn't have any problems if you take the time to measure clearances, and put it together properly.