MPFI conversion DONE!!! with a catch....
 

Just done the MPFI conversion on the D15B2... first it didn't start because the fuel system wasn't pressurised yet... then start briefly... then it wouldn't start..... swaped a working fuel pump relay now it starts... idle ok but a tad low... can feel the rumble when heater and rear screen heater on... anyway that out the road... here is a problem I am trying to solve...

It throws a Code 13 which is the Baro Sensor from what I gathered...... How can this be fixed? I tried pulling out Hazzard Fuel and ECU back up fuel to restart the ECU but it stays on. It comes on when the key turned to ignition position, the CEL off for a breif second or 2... then it stays on constant.

The Car drives fine and can rev up no problem just the lights comes on. The sympton described above is when I am using a PP4 G01 which is a UK Rover (Honda Engined SOHC D-series) Just standard ECU not yet chipped.


Then I tried plugs in a PM7-E04 ECU which was from a EDM EF with the DOHC D-series.... it throws a code 13 then 11, other then that the same syptom but the code 11 only comes up along with the 13 when the PM7 is used but only code 13 when I use the PP4 ECU.

Any idea guys?

Re: MPFI conversion DONE!!! with a catch....
 

Some of those ECUs have a baro (also called AP aka Atmospheric Pressure) sensor either on the motherboard, or underdash near the ECU. My guess is (MPFI conversion errors aside, which I doubt you've made) your car has no underdash AP sensor and the ECUs you are using are looking for an external AP sensor.

I'm pretty certain AP sensors for USDM cars are the same things as the MAP sensor, which means it's the same for you. It shouldn't be hard to find/wire one in, check the manuals linked to in this forum if you need some wiring diagrams to help you out.

BTW, my 89 CRX HF had some strange wiring.. it's a MPFI car, but running something other than the HF ECU gave me code 13 and wierd idle variances whenever I hit the brakes or actuated the brake light switch (also feeds to the ECU on the HF). My cure was to cut a few extra wires that weren't used by normal MPFI cars. You might check to see if your car came stock with some wierd no-longer-used sensors, and remove those pins from the harness.

Hey, it's nice to see a new guy manning up and doing MPFI conversions. Most people get all skeered by 6-7 wires. Best of luck to you.

Re: MPFI conversion DONE!!! with a catch....
 

Yea been trying to look for it in the car today briefly couldn't find it. Have to say our ECU is on the left hand side of the car, since we are right hand drive.... so i was lookin on the same side as ECU but couldn't find it, will have another look tomorrow more in details. However I checked the pin out table for the P04 and the MPFI ECU, for the PA sensors the wiring is the same location, so nothing is changed. Unless the P04 have one within the ECU?

Will also check about the sensors that is not in uses as well. :)

Thanks for the comment... but have done research for 1.5 weeks to find the right write up, as most just done for the US model... as we get this EG with D15B2 oddball in UK... eventually found the write up by 1net on pgmfi.org for the this but also referenced to the write up you can find in the honda forums for US model. Then 2 weeks chewing everyword over and over again. Then order the parts get the spanners ready and get right dirty... as I got this hatch for cheap and I got my daily ride a EG9 so not worry about blowing it up (TOUCH WOOD)... and not able to get to travel :P

Re: MPFI conversion DONE!!! with a catch....
 

on usdm civics 88-91 it's on the passenger side kick panel area.

Re: MPFI conversion DONE!!! with a catch....
 

It on the right side of the area had a good time lookin for it one day.

Re: MPFI conversion DONE!!! with a catch....
 

had a look today no luck for the AP sensor... :(

Re: MPFI conversion DONE!!! with a catch....
 

I have just done a d15b2 to doch zc swap in my edm 92 civic eg lsi (i have done the dpfi-mpfi conversion)..
It runs great, but i get code 13 (using the pm7 ecu with is the ecu made for the engine).
I have checked the pin outs, and the PA sensor i supposed to be connectet to c9 c12 and c13.
At pin c9 there is nothing but at c12 and c13 the wires are allready there. how am i supposed to connect the new PA sensor? I don't have the new sensor yet, but i will get it soon, and I suppose it has 3 wires.
at c12 and c13 should i just hook them up to the wires that's allready there?


Attachment 34540

Re: MPFI conversion DONE!!! with a catch....
 

my guess is that your cars came stock w/ the Baro Sensor on the ecu where as the ecus you're using now are looking for it externally.

hit up people w/ junked crx/civcs in the US and you can get one im sure.

Re: MPFI conversion DONE!!! with a catch....
 

I allready a baro sensor (pa sensor) on the way, should be in my mail soon..

I'm just not sure of how to connect it to the ecu, sice it allready got wires on c12 and c13..

ecu pinout C9 = PA sensor
ecu pinout C12 = PA sensor\ ignition timing adjusting connetctor\TA sensor\TPS sensor\TW sensor
ecu pinout C13 = PA sensor\TPS sensor

Re: MPFI conversion DONE!!! with a catch....
 

c12 and c13 are common between those sensors because they are the 5v reference and common grounds

c9 is the actual sensor input.

i'll find out about wiring colours in a sec.

Re: MPFI conversion DONE!!! with a catch....
 

c9 = red/wht
c12 = grn/wht (gnd)
c13 = yel/wht = (5v reference).

have fun ;)

Re: MPFI conversion DONE!!! with a catch....
 

Yeah, let us know how it turns out.

I feel bad for some of you grey market guys whose cars have small quirks and knowledge about them isn't as fluent... but this isn't a big deal, just takes some determination and a little work.

Re: MPFI conversion DONE!!! with a catch....
 

Joseph you pointed out the AP could be the same as a MAP sensor earlier.... Hence I am wondering I could just wire in the map sensor so it act as a AP sensor?

I haven't seens a AP sensor yet I have ask the Rover guy that sold me the ECU (as his car is for breaking) to get me the AP sensor he can't locate it either.. but I am assuming it would have a 3 wire plug? Hence if thats the case and if the MAP sensor can be used as a AP sensor, then maybe could try to tap into C12 and C13 accordingly then add a pin to C9 and connect the last wire... what you reckon?

As I got the manifold from the D15B7 it has a MAP sensor on the manifold and the D15B2 is seperate and mounted on the firewall... which is retired from action and could be used elsewhere if compatible...

Re: MPFI conversion DONE!!! with a catch....
 

BIG thanx to crx88si..


I also have an extra MAP sensor laying around, so if MAP an PA are the same, i might use the MAP instead..
would be fun to find out.

btw, in all the wiering diagrams the Atmospheric Pressure (baro) sensor are refered to as a PA sensor, not AP sensor..

Re: MPFI conversion DONE!!! with a catch....
 

I am itching my hands.... I might just try it tomorrow.. but hopefully someone can answer then I know for sure :D about the "PA" issue :P.

Oh yea was speaking to xenocron about CEL and disable them in turboedit... he was saying about NOCEL.EXE.. maybe an option also but need looking into.

Re: MPFI conversion DONE!!! with a catch....
 

I think the CEL is there becouse the car is suposed to have the same fault finding prosedure as obd-1 cars (use the jumper wire and the engine light flashes), but since the pm7 ecu has the diode on the ecu things crash. when i get the time i will read some diagrams and then hopefully cut som wires, and hopefully the CEL will go away, and hopefully the engine light will still function as it should when you turn on the ignition..

Re: MPFI conversion DONE!!! with a catch....
 

Yeah, I got AP confused with PA, you're right. Dyslexia owns.

Your problem might be that the B2 ECU had internal PA, or didn't need one, and the MPFI ECU you have is meant for external PA, which you don't have a provision for until you wire one in.

I dunno 100% about PA and MAP being the same, but I bet the Helms manuals found in the download section off of www.deliii.com will tell all. They give a nice MAP sensor pressure:voltage chart, and I don't see why they wouldn't do the same for an AP.

Re: MPFI conversion DONE!!! with a catch....
 

I have wired in the MAP sensor to act as a PA sensor... : -

http://www.mygarage-glasgow.co.uk/pi..._map_as_PA.JPG

Using D15B7 MAP sensor plug and D15B2 firewall mounted MAP sensor: -

1) Add pin to C9 as signal wire

Map Sensor Plug ECU harness Side
White to C9 (Signal)
Green/White to C12 Green/White (Earth)
Yellow Red to C13 Yellow/White (+5V)

Now the car when switched on the first time, the CEL goes out and won't come back on (which previously did) which is good.

HOWEVER : -

If you try to turn on ignition (without starting the car).... then switch it off. Then do the same again, the CEL won't come on at all, no fuel pump whin or the relay click.

BUT: - even then the car starts fine. When once you started the car, the next time you turn the key (without starting the car) the CEL will comes on and goes out again as normal. Then repeat switch it off CEL won't comes on.

So to conclude the CEL will comes on normally first time, unless you start the car the CEL won't comes back and without the fuel pump whin and relay click noise. Even the car starts ok. Only you will hear the fuel pump + relay when CEL comes on normally.

Re: MPFI conversion DONE!!! with a catch....
 

Just done more observation.... it seems that the CEL will comes on again without starting the car but have to count 1-5 then turn the key again.... and it doesn't seems to be throwing any codes as I have the LED on the ECU.

Re: MPFI conversion DONE!!! with a catch....
 

that's just amazing.. i will do that tomorrow..
does the car run good? engine sounds fine?

i think the engine light is supposed to act that way when you turn off, and on the ingnition, becouse you still got maximum fuel pressure..

Re: MPFI conversion DONE!!! with a catch....
 

I started the car and run it it is ok (bear in mind I don't get to drive it as my exhaust manifold is off!!!!) As I am progressing to the next stage for the turbo project. However it doesn't throw anymore error code.

I know that if your fuel system is still pressurised you won't hear the fuel pump whin and relay click noise... but I think the CEL on the dashboard should still comes on then goes off though?

Re: MPFI conversion DONE!!! with a catch....
 

OK, becouse if the MAP and the PA don't have the same scaling, you will not get any error codes, it will just think you are at the top of a mountain, instead of right next to the sea..

yeah, you might be right about that one. I don't remember..

Re: MPFI conversion DONE!!! with a catch....
 

yep there is a potential scaling problem until we can compare the spec of each sensor to tell for sure... Let us know how you gets on once you tried it if the same sympton occurs. If you can post up a picture of the PA sensor when you recieve it would be cool too, as I may try to get one as well and see if that problem disappears. would be interesting to know if the MAP and the PA both uses the same type of plugs? If it is would be handy just unplug the MAP and plug in the PA sensor.

Re: MPFI conversion DONE!!! with a catch....
 

yes, i'lll let you know how i goes. Hopefully i'll get time to mount in the MAP tonight, and i will probably get the PA at the end of the week ("next" week)..

do you know where I can find the ignition timing adjusment connector on the civic lsi? I bet they are at the same location as on obd-1 92-95 civics, but I don't seem to find anything about it in the helms manual..

Re: MPFI conversion DONE!!! with a catch....
 

Here, 88-89 were forward of the driver's shock tower, and 90-00 or so were all above the ECU in the passenger's side kickpanel.

Re: MPFI conversion DONE!!! with a catch....
 

thank you JD. hope i'll find a connection with the right colours..

I did not get time to try out the MAP sensor yesterday. Maybee tonight...

Re: MPFI conversion DONE!!! with a catch....
 

Cool, let us know how you get on :) Good luck!

Re: MPFI conversion DONE!!! with a catch....
 

what about 92--> obd-1 civics? do they use the service connector to adjust the ignition timing?
still can't find it in the helms manual...

Re: MPFI conversion DONE!!! with a catch....
 

i believe so.

Re: MPFI conversion DONE!!! with a catch....
 

I've yet to see the check engine connector effect timing in any way. As long as idle is below 900 rpms, you are good to go.

Re: MPFI conversion DONE!!! with a catch....
 

OK, tanx..

I got my PA sensor today, and it does not look anything like a MAP (does not funktion the same way).
I think the reason you got the CEL to disappeare is that they both give a signal between 0-5V.
I'll get some picks tomorrow.

Re: MPFI conversion DONE!!! with a catch....
 

I am trying to search for the NOCEL.EXE now... just incase I can't locate one in my local yard, and disable the code 13 as I am waiting for the gear to arrive to chip the ECU :D for hte boost project.

Re: MPFI conversion DONE!!! with a catch....
 

mountet my PA sensor yesterday. No CEL, no codes, no nothing. everyting runs great :D

pics:
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2.../Utennavn3.jpg
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2.../Utennavn2.jpg

Re: MPFI conversion DONE!!! with a catch....
 

damn we're good.