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How about a REAL discussion about LS rod bolts?

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How about a REAL discussion about LS rod bolts?

Old 04-17-2007, 03:30 PM
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Default How about a REAL discussion about LS rod bolts?

I'd like to preface by saying that i google-searched for hmt threads on this, and it was fruitless.

Secondly, I'd like to keep this away from the typical H-T-type "well 'everyone' says you'll spin a bearing blah blah blah".

We've all heard endless bitching about ls rod bolts, how they are the same size as dseries rod bolts and anything higher than stock rev limit will cause them to stretch, resulting in a spun bearing.

But I'm wondering how many people actually have experience with pushing ls rod bolts. JD and I have talked about this a little bit, I'll let him chime in with his own info though. I'd just like to hear more success stories, or REAL DOCUMENTED failures of ls rod bolts. That is, failures that were most certainly due to ls rod bolts being "weak", not "oh well i had some oiling issues, but it had to be those damn ls rod bolts". Or, "I had no clue what I was doing when I built my motor, but it had to be those shitty ls rod bolts!"


I'll personally share:

I know two guys who at this very moment are running stock lsvtecs (stock ls bottom, stock gsr head on both i believe). One is na, the other is boosted at 10psi w/an sc50. They both rev to about 8k, and neither has had an issue at all. The turbo one has probably been running 5ish months. The other one I have no idea, but definately much longer than that.

I also, last weekend was at a friends house modding some ic piping, when his good friend (knowledgable also) was telling us about his old integra, with stock bottom ls, with built top end (port work, cams, bolt-ons etc) and he'd rev above 8k on a regular basis (he also had an itr tranny).

So, some REAL discussion about this would be great. Thanks guys!
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Old 04-17-2007, 05:13 PM
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Default Re: How about a REAL discussion about LS rod bolts?

so why isn't this in the Ls/Vtec thread i created all of 12 hours ago
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Old 04-17-2007, 06:20 PM
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Default Re: How about a REAL discussion about LS rod bolts?

Many people rapped ls bottom ends in the original ls/vtec era. A friend of mine had one stock ls bottom end and rev was set at 8200 and was brought to alot. The problem in my view which applies to alot of these motors is simple ls motors are old now. Hell a b18a1 can be 18 years old so ya the motor is already askin to have carnage of it hasnt already



150k ls block
+raping above factory rev


ya the chance is things will fail



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Old 04-17-2007, 06:54 PM
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Default Re: How about a REAL discussion about LS rod bolts?

Originally Posted by JDMFantasy2K
so why isn't this in the Ls/Vtec thread i created all of 12 hours ago
because then it would've come up, someone would say, "get arp rod bolts" and that would be the end of the discussion.


chris, thanks for the insight.
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Old 04-17-2007, 07:44 PM
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Default Re: How about a REAL discussion about LS rod bolts?

2 years on stock rod bolts. Sees 8200 fairly often and has seen 8500 on occasion.
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Old 04-17-2007, 08:43 PM
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Default Re: How about a REAL discussion about LS rod bolts?

They are factory forged rods. The big end is tiny compared to B16 or GSR, but that doesn't mean ----. When the rod itself fails it breaks across the beam, and that is rare.

Trickturn, who owns carolinahondas.com, had an early ECHC engine with 40K miles on it last I saw it running. B20 block, stock (PR4 aka LS) rods, stock bolts, etc, revved to 8500 rpms daily. Keep in mind, this is not just 8500 rpms on an LS rod it's 8500 rpms with a larger-than-LS 84mm slug on the end of it. I'll ask him to post his experiences here.

I force-overrevved my old B18A1 past 10K three times, every last time I had to go back and adjust the valves becuase they were ticking. I didn't change the oil but every 15K whether it needed it or not, and it was turbo for 10K miles. When a 30 degree section of number 4 ring land broke I tore the engine down and all the bearings in it looked new. It had 170K on it.

Every spun rod or rod knocking LS I have seen had the stock fastener reused a couple of times, or the upper bearing half was very worn which means the problem was detonation not rod bolt stretch. You hear a lot of noise from the low-buck LS/VTEC crowd, but those tards strap on VTEC heads without changing pistons and somehow don't think that 33mm intake valves aren't going to smack against 31mm piston flycuts when they proceed to rev the engine to 9K with the usual mis-assembly problems (out of time, detonating, head milled a lot but dowel pins aren't shortened, oil pressure problems, etc) that accompany anything built by idiots.

They are great engines. The newest one is six years old now, and average "expected mileage" on it should be 90K based off a 15K/yr driving average. Like chris said, everything worth running requires building these days.
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Old 04-17-2007, 10:07 PM
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Default Re: How about a REAL discussion about LS rod bolts?

Originally Posted by noboostedEGo
because then it would've come up, someone would say, "get arp rod bolts" and that would be the end of the discussion.


chris, thanks for the insight.

point taken. Awesome info from JD too.
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Old 04-18-2007, 01:19 AM
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Default Re: How about a REAL discussion about LS rod bolts?

Originally Posted by Joseph Davis

Trickturn, who owns carolinahondas.com, had an early ECHC engine with 40K miles on it last I saw it running. B20 block, stock (PR4 aka LS) rods, stock bolts, etc, revved to 8500 rpms daily. Keep in mind, this is not just 8500 rpms on an LS rod it's 8500 rpms with a larger-than-LS 84mm slug on the end of it. I'll ask him to post his experiences here.
Hi, I'm Trickturn on carolinahondas.com

I still have the engine that Joseph is referring to & recently went to Deal's Gap & had some fun w/ it in my EG.

My B20/vtec engine: Stock JDM B20B bottomend uncut valve reliefs w/ a JDM 1st gen B16A head held together by ARP studs.

My rev limit is set @ 8200 rpms (Used to be 8500 until new dyno tune & new powerband)
This engine has 55k miles on it... on top of whatever it had in Japan.

I have:

Raced this engine @ countless drag strips
Raced this engine @ countless road circuits
Been to Deal's Gap several times w/ this engine

The only problem I have had w/ the engine is needing to adjust the valves.

The one who started this thread was looking for experiences... those are mine!

Have a good day,

Pete
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Old 04-18-2007, 03:25 AM
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Default Re: How about a REAL discussion about LS rod bolts?

I too know a guy who builds engines as his job. IIRC he had a B20/vtec with ITR pistons and thats about it. Revved to 8500+ each day...after it warmed up. Beat the **** out of it. The motor eventually threw a rod, actually, albeit it was a stock (and likely reused) fastener, as he gets b20's for nothing. I guess my point is that not all rods or conditions are created equal. But I'm entirely sold on the idea that most broken engines are from user error durring assembly.

BTW JD, I'm curious about your 'big end' statement. All d16/b16/b18's have the same rod journal size of 48mm. Its the width that is different - B18a/b,B20,B16 are widest, then d16's, then b18cX's. At least says my info sheet. I can't see it being wrong in many spots though, everything I've been able to check is correct.
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Old 04-18-2007, 09:35 AM
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Default Re: How about a REAL discussion about LS rod bolts?

I was talking about the rod itself, where the big end transitions to the beam.
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