any Mini-Mi swaps here WITHOUT a turbo?
 

hey guys I posted earlier if anyone had done a D15B7 to D16Z6 swap... since maybe that was too specific, I am reaching out to all those who have done any mini-me swap in general (without custom turbo). I was wondering if this swap is worth my time and money. Forget HP numbers; what kind of power difference have any of you felt since swapping your head to VTEC? Does this little VTEC give a healthy push in the high-RPM's, or is it just noticable to you because you know your car so well? Also, for those who have dyno'd, I would expect power increase at any engine speed, because of the compresion ratio in addition to VTEC. Any thoughts?

Re:any Mini-Mi swaps here WITHOUT a turbo?
 

I have a thought.. I think you are putting to much thought into this little swap.. Its about a 20-25hp gain or so. Its not like "holy ---- this thing is fast!" its like "ya its a little bit quicker"

just go out and buy a z6 head and put that mother fucker on.

Sometimes I think all of you guys try to think things out way to much.

go with Nike's slogan...

"Just Do It"

lol,
Jeff

Re:any Mini-Mi swaps here WITHOUT a turbo?
 

abaz is right its a nice little hey im fast than i was. if you do the right stuff to it you can go far. i ran a 14 flat with my z6 this past summer . on steet tires with slicks a bit more strip experience i bet i oculd of hit 13's.

but one thing most people odnt know is you get what you pay for. your not gonna get 200 hp for a couple hundre bucks in a new head.

scarponze

Re:any Mini-Mi swaps here WITHOUT a turbo?
 

Actually, I've done the minis. Sorry I didn't post earlier, but I don't really watch the Hybrid forum, just FI. ;D

As Jeff said, it is a small swpa. Nothing to go bragging about, but it gives you a little advantage over the little 4g Si's.

You'll pull strong through 1st and 2nd, an you'll also notice 3rd pulls a little stronger. Other than that, 4th and 5th are just as weak as they were before.

Now, if you're planning on doing a mini, don't use the Z6. The Y8 will cause you less problems with your distributor in the long run. Since it bolts right up. The problem with the Z6 is that the "ears" that you bolt the distributor down with don't line up, so you have to hack two of them off just so you can get your ignition timing set correct. This makes a sloppy/ghettofied looking engine bay. Plus if you plan on doing something different down the road, you can't because you distirbutor is all hacked up.

Speaking of timing, use whatever timing belt of whatever head you're using. That's a must. The stoch A6 won't fit either of those heads.

Oh ya.. don't forget to pop your oil jet on your A6 block. Too much oil pressure in the head if you don't.

Hrm, what else.. oh ya, don't use an RPM switch for VTec. Get a good controller if you plan on keeping that head swap. Maybe start with the RPM switch, if you like it, get a controller. They're a lot easier to tune..

Re:any Mini-Mi swaps here WITHOUT a turbo?
 

used a stock a6 belt with my z6/a6 mini-me without any problems.. the only one mini-me that I had to change the belt was on the d15b2 (dx) I used the VX timing belt

Jeff

Re:any Mini-Mi swaps here WITHOUT a turbo?
 

Really? Mine wouldn't fit.. I guess I could have FORCED it on.. but.. that's a bit dangerous, eh? May break when you tension it? Hrm, I don't know.. damn cheap O'Reilly's brand timing belts. :P

Re:any Mini-Mi swaps here WITHOUT a turbo?
 

go here
http://crx.honda-perf.org/articles/z6swap/z6swap.html

Re:any Mini-Mi swaps here WITHOUT a turbo?
 

hey guys thanx for the quick replies. By the way, TurboEF9, I think a Z6 would be a better bet for me since I am using a '94 Civic, OBD1, so the ECU mod from a Z6 would not require an expensive conversion -- the P28 fits right on. When you talk about a hacked distributor, are you referring just to my stock one? I know about that one, but I wouldn't have to hack up a Z6 distributor would I?

Also, I don't expect huge gains for a couple hundred bucks, but if the power difference will be about as minimal as what guys say a free-flowing exhaust and intake does, I don't know if it's worth the risk. I don't know what VTEC feels like, so I don't really have an idea of what to expect. I know little about these engines, and I am learning, but I would hate to get in over my head for some barely noticable difference. You guys describe exactly what I am looking for... a little more push in 1st and 2nd, and maybe 3rd. Something so I can have more of an edge over a V6 Camry, because right now they own me. :-[ Sorry for thinking so much, Jeff, better to plan too much than too little.

Re:any Mini-Mi swaps here WITHOUT a turbo?
 

Oh, I missed that you saud B7 and not B2.. Ya, depending on how your car is setup you may need a different distributor.

I haven't seen a DX EG.. It has multipoint fuel injection? If so, you have a distributor with a CYP sensor and you won't have to worry about swapping distributors. It should bolt right ot your Z6 head. Now, the thing is, though, I don't know if the B7 will raise the compression like a A6/Z6 block/head.

Now, I know in the EFs the B2/Z6 or B2/Y8 the compression is actually supposed to be HIGHER than the A6/Z6. I don't know. I haven't actually tried all of that..

As for VTec, with a P28.. you're talking a little bit more thank a few hundred dollars. P28's are going for $200+ on eBay, and Z6 heads? Couple hundred as well.

Re:any Mini-Mi swaps here WITHOUT a turbo?
 

hey no worries on the issues of compression and distributor, Jeff has already talked me through all of that. I just wonered if you had some new information for me. Just for the record, ECU's are going for like $140 on Ebay (not new), and I probably will use my stock distributor. I have made an Excel sheet of all expenses I will incur with this, right down to the last head bolt, gasket, and timing belt. I have got it down to $403 right now, without buying a Z6 intake or T-body. I refer you now to my earlier threads in this forum, all within the last 2 weeks. Enjoy ;D

Re:any Mini-Mi swaps here WITHOUT a turbo?
 

hey, 88crxSi, is that link your website? If so, I like your pictures! They are rather helpful.

Do you guys know if there's a difference between the two timing belts that have recently been suggested to me? The VX and the EX/Si? Is there any difference in the number of teeth on the belt, or are they just slightly different lengths? I would think that if I got a belt with the wrong number of teeth, it'd screw up my cylinder head as soon as I start up the car. Nothing worse than screwed up timing; this is something I want to get right.

Re:any Mini-Mi swaps here WITHOUT a turbo?
 

tips-
* get a die grinder and port and polish the header and maby the head and intake manefold. gonna help ya out later.
* get an eprom burner and TUNE ur ecu for optimum power. go to http://pgmfi.crx-forum.org/index2.html they got the bin files ye dont even need ta be smart use gheetodyne. (this willreally help ya out) eprom burners sell on ebay fer cheap
*TIMINGTIMINGTIMINGTIMINGTIMING get is as advanced as posible without pinging and your set

should make decent hp with a decent exhaust, intake and a lott of time
(for all the ladys in the room where are my manners)

Re:any Mini-Mi swaps here WITHOUT a turbo?
 

I dunno, Mr-T..... I feel like the Mini-Me is already putting me on the risky side of things. This is my college car, and I would like to get it to 200k miles (130k currently). I would be happy (at least for a little while) with just the VTEC before I mess with timing and a modded ECU.

Speaking of intake and exhaust.... do you know if my 1.5 litre ports on those manifolds are matched with those on the 1.6 litre cylinder head? If they don't, it will be restricting air flow.

Re:any Mini-Mi swaps here WITHOUT a turbo?
 

Not anything that you would notice..

If you're that worried about "messing up" your daily driver, you're in the wrong hobby. :-\

My roommat used to modify his only car, then he blew the engine in it, and learned VERY quickly to modify your hobby car.. and drive your beater. That's a known fact.

Your Mini Me isn't that big of a mod.. You'll be OK with it, as long as you set your timing correctly. Which is very simple. Careful with your ECU mods though, if you don'thave much experience, you'll screw it up very quickly.

Re:any Mini-Mi swaps here WITHOUT a turbo?
 

Isnt it funny how some people just throw hp numbers out like its true. haha...but anyways, this is an easy swap that'll give you something to talk about other then " my dx is SLOW " but 1 thing. Z6 head flows better. Y8 int. manifold is shorter w/ larger runners, f22(accord) throttle body fits the mani and its alot bigger then the stock z6/y8, and you wont need to port, and get a adj. cam gear cause you can adjust the cam and ign timing to a better curve and will gain a few more points on the hp in the mid range rpm. but if you want 150....try something else and dont believe things like ESTIMATED hp figures. ;)

Re:any Mini-Mi swaps here WITHOUT a turbo?
 

I don't necessarily agree that you have to have to put miles on your "beater" and modify a hobby car. Right now I only have one car, and I don't think that means I can't modify it within reason.

In "High Performance Honda Builder's Handbook," Oscar Jackson is quoted as saying "My wife's car ran 12.89 at 111 mph six years ago, and we made 200-plus horsepower on a daily basis with that motor." That book was published in '96, so Jackson did that in 1990. I don't claim to be Oscar Jackson or even have the tuning expertise of many of you guys, but I see no reason why a little patience and a lot of research can't result in a fun daily driver. Next time you call something a "known fact," you may want to consider that you don't speak for everyone.

Re:any Mini-Mi swaps here WITHOUT a turbo?
 

If you have the "expertise" of the guy that is wanting to mod his Civic, and he's to scared to even put a head and worried about messing it up. Don't do it. No one is making anyone do anything. Yes, I have the Honda Builder's Handbook, and just because it said that the car his 200hp "daily" doesn't mean she relied on it to get her back and forth to class, or to work, or the grocery store.

Bottom line, if you're scared about screwing up your only car, don't modify it. Unanticipcated things happen. They always do.

Re:any Mini-Mi swaps here WITHOUT a turbo?
 

I'd be a fool not to be worried about messing it up. I just know that if I take my time and do the research, I can eliminate as many risks as possible. If it was a hobby car and not my daily driver I may be more likely to do something stupid and take chances.

Re:any Mini-Mi swaps here WITHOUT a turbo?
 

Man, stop worrying about it, just slap a ------- head on it and call it a day.. ;)

Re:any Mini-Mi swaps here WITHOUT a turbo?
 

Ya, I'm feeling that way myself.. ::)

Re:any Mini-Mi swaps here WITHOUT a turbo?
 

I'd rather take my time and risk sounding like a ----- than go in foolhardy and screw my engine to hell. Slappping a head on isn't cake for everyone on this forum.

Re:any Mini-Mi swaps here WITHOUT a turbo?
 

Well, get a nice big fork and munch away @ that cake :)

No, Just joking. I don't see what could go wrong if you take your time at it. I have to be a little more patient than most people on this forum because I don't have a good place to work... I got the tools, just hard to work in the dirt or most of the time in the dark. Get everything together (head gasket, timing belt) and pick a real nice day to do it. When it comes time to start it up, and it runs rough, start working on that timing.

Re:any Mini-Mi swaps here WITHOUT a turbo?
 

I have found that you should always double your time estimate and tripple your budget for every auto related project and you will be closer to what it will realy take to get it done!

Re:any Mini-Mi swaps here WITHOUT a turbo?
 

Bottom line is just to do it or not. PERIOD. dont be like...this is this, and that is that....its just a little swap. like i said...DONT believe everything you read. it may or has work for them but it may Not work for you. they spend countless hours on just controlling the air flow throught the manifold..as you spend minutes just looking at your gay motor. theres always a risk of BLOWING up. always. ask everyone. you just have to risk it if you want to speed your car up. like the old hot rod guys use to say, "you ain't racing till you start breaking things!" and thats very true to a point. theres already too much time wasted on this already. good luck on your maybe never to happen cause your scared, swap.

Re:any Mini-Mi swaps here WITHOUT a turbo?
 

start on friday, if u screw it up then get a friend to drive u to school unntil u fix it :) My CRX is my daily driver aswell, during the summer anyways. Not having tools lying around and extra engines makes myself, and you a little more hesitant to modify the car. So I know what you mean by careful. You could just wait 2 months for school do be done if u dont have a full time job and do it then. Im just like you, very picky about what goes on my car, I must have researched wheels for a month b4 I ended up buying. Still researching tires ;-) But seeing how people have done this mod b4 and worked w/o problems, I would go for it during a weekend when u can live without your car for a couple of days. good luck.

Re:any Mini-Mi swaps here WITHOUT a turbo?
 

I am in college, and I live on a small campus and I have no off-campus jobs..... soooooo, if I really had to I could go for a month without my car. It's just a perk for me to drive it every now and then. I don't have a garage to access, but we do have nice parking lots with street lamps and a level surface! ;D

Re:any Mini-Mi swaps here WITHOUT a turbo?
 

Well man what can i say, it took us like 3 hours to do mine right and we had the car running right after with an msd switch. My distributer lookis kinda ghetto but i dont care, trust me im an 18 year old high school kid, if i could do it anyone can. and about timing and ecu modding well ur gonna have to ---- with the timing be4 even srarting it, atleast set it and its kinda a little bitch but give it a couple of tries with a real timing light and yer set. The ecu eprom well, im still tuing mine so thats just a quest for more power.

just do it and get it over with, fyi if you havent gotten yer head yet go with the y8 and you dont gotta ---- with the distributer and a frend did this swap with a a D15B7 and it was a piece of cake. just make sure you port your intake, its even smaller than the d16's whole thing cost me less than $400 with new head studs (ebay) and my ecu eprom and an rs232 convertor

hope that was helpful

Re: any Mini-Mi swaps here WITHOUT a turbo?
 

hahah....I just wanted to bring an old trend back. I wonder if he ever did it....hahahahha. ;D