92 CX w/GSR hits VTEC and bleh! (long)
 

Ok, here's the deal. Working on a 92 CX with a B18C in it. When I originally did the swap for the owner, we put Skunk 2 cam gears on (which were zero'd out), along with a new t-belt, cheap-o header and an AEM fuel rain, FPR and Hybrid intake. Car ran great, no codes, pulled really well, using the jdm ecu. He took it to the track and ran a 14.4 or something like that on some cheap h-rated street tires, so the car was running good. About a month later, he brings it back so we can install a Skunk 2 intake manifold and Hondata intake manifold gasket along with some braided steel brake lines. I noticed that he had installed some MSD 8.5mm wires and NGK Iridium plugs. The install goes smoothly, (with the exception of some rusted ass brake lines :7 ) and he takes the car, all is well. He calls me the next evening, or maybe two days later, tells me his car just died. He was cruising at about 100mph and the car just shut off. First thing I thought was oh damn, t-belt snapped. I had him check the to see if the cam gears would spin while he cranked and they did, so I told him it was most likely a dead coil. He looked at the dizzy and one of the MSD plug wires had popped off. He put it back on, but no luck. So he went and got a new coil, swapped it out and the car started and it seemed to run fine, but he says he never really ran it hard till he was at the track again the other night and ran a 16.0 :o That is when he calls me and says, something is wrong, brings the car by and I take it for a ride. Seems to be running OK till VTEC kicks in and it seems to fall on it's face and just really doesn't want to rev freely like it should and doesn't seem to be making any real power. At this point, he said he had already ordered an MSD external coil and cap set-up and was waiting for it to come in. So it comes, I install it and there was no real change (and I wasn't really expecting there to be), so I pulled the plugs and they seemed really white, like the car might be running lean. I put the original plugs back in and it seemed to run a little smoother, but it was still having the high cam problems. Keep in mind there are still no codes and the car starts fine and seems to run fine on the low cam. So at this point, I am not sure what to think. I am wondering if there is some other kind of problem with the dizzy (ignition module) or if maybe the fuel pump is on it's way out :( Pressure is still good at about 42psi but I cannot see the the gauge when i am driving the car. The last thing I noticed was that he overfilled the oil by about 3/4 of a qt when he did his last oil change. I have not tried draining that extra oil out yet, but I really can't see how that would affect the high cam performance.

So lets here some ideas as to what the problem might be.

Re: 92 CX w/GSR hits VTEC and bleh! (long)
 

U check and see if the TB goes WOT? Double check the timming belt and cam gears and make sure they didnt slip. Do a Compression test

Re: 92 CX w/GSR hits VTEC and bleh! (long)
 

I did not actually check and see if the TB goes wide open. I do plan checking the timing when I go back to the shop on tuesday, but I know the gears did not slip as they are still zero'd out and all the locking bolts are tight. What I don't understand is how the car seems to run completely fine and when it switches over to VTEC it just seems to loose power, even if your just easing into the throttle. Yea, I guess a compression check is in order also.

Re: 92 CX w/GSR hits VTEC and bleh! (long)
 

I am having the same problem right now with my ls/vtec swap and cannot figure it out let me know if you find anything out.

Re: 92 CX w/GSR hits VTEC and bleh! (long)
 

vtechhhhhhhhh doesnt work alot due to oil pressure


I would hook up the solenoid to direct power at idle just to see if its working youll tell when vtec is on at idle it will have made jdm lopping that will elimnate the solenoid

Re: 92 CX w/GSR hits VTEC and bleh! (long)
 

well i put on a whole new soleniod from my old motor that I know worked and still does the same thing. And I put a paper clip in the oil pressure plug to close the circiut and it didnt work either. Any other ideas.

Re: 92 CX w/GSR hits VTEC and bleh! (long)
 

hook a test light up with some wiring and go for a drive see if it gets power at the crossover.

Re: 92 CX w/GSR hits VTEC and bleh! (long)
 

I can actually hear the crossover happening and I don't just think it is the map change in the ECU. I have yet to go back to the shop and look a it. I was gonna go today while we were closed, so I could work on it in peace, but I just could not get myself motivated to go in :-\ I will see what I can come up with tomorrow. I am not sure, but I think the owner changed the oil over to synthetic, has anybody ever heard of any problems related to vtec engagement using synthetic oils?

Re: 92 CX w/GSR hits VTEC and bleh! (long)
 

no the only time oil in a vtec notor is an issue is if you use olive oil

Re: 92 CX w/GSR hits VTEC and bleh! (long)
 

Damnit, I told him that olive oil was not the same as synthetic :P

Re: 92 CX w/GSR hits VTEC and bleh! (long)
 

Thats funny, I am having the exact same problem with my Ls/Vtec setup in my 95 hatch. I know VTEC is engaging because I set up a test light and I can hear it engage. I took it to the track the other night and the best I could run was a 15.7! I thought maybe it was because I just totally rebuilt the engine ~200 miles ago, but now i'm wondering If we have the same problem. Could it be that our Vtec is only partially engaging? I don't get it...

Re: 92 CX w/GSR hits VTEC and bleh! (long)
 

All this from changing an intake manifold? Seems a little odd to me. What exactly's goin on with the iacv? Maybe the ecu is seeing it as still semi-cold and in reality won't let it hit vtec, or it might bounce in and out of the "warmed up" range. How about base timing? Has it been moved at all? I'm kinda stumped on this one :-\

Re: 92 CX w/GSR hits VTEC and bleh! (long)
 

I have the iacv disabled and the speed check and the temp check disabled. Some thing is defenitly happining at the engauge point, it feels like it loses power at the engauge point wherever i set it at. And the oil pressure gauge goes nuts at the engauge point too. ZC4ME and reactone do you guys have oil gauges hooked up to the cars and does it go crazy too. I havent torn the head back apart yet, everything looked fine when i put it on. Maybe tonight.

Re: 92 CX w/GSR hits VTEC and bleh! (long)
 

check the filter in the solenoid.. its a little mesh screen.

Re: 92 CX w/GSR hits VTEC and bleh! (long)
 

Funny that you mentioned this, cause I was back at the shop today and thinking about what I should look at first, then I remember the owner of the car telling me that his vtec solonoid gasket was leaking and he put some rtv around it. I was like hmmmmm, so I pulled the solonoid off and the rtv looked like it had infiltrated the oil passage areas, but not to the extent that I thought it would hamper the function, but I removed all signs of the rtv and actually put a gasket/screen from another solonoid and reinstalled the solonoid. I started the car and let it idle for a bit, then took it for a drive and did not exceed 4k rpm till the car had reached normal operating temp. Even at this point, the car did not feel exactly right, and when vtec engaged, sure enough......bleh, it felt flat. Took it back to the shop, jacked it up and was looking for anything out of ordinary, pulled the valve cover, and set the crank to TDC, everything looked good, all the valvetrain appeared normal and I am really thinking WTF at this point. There was this strange rattle that I was hearing and I thought it was a weld on the exhaust that had broken loose, so I decided I would check that out, cause at least I could probably fix that. When I get under the car and don't see anything broken, so I bang on the exhaust with my fist and I hear the rattle, so I bang harder and listen more intently and the sound appeared to be coming from the catalytic converter.....so then I started thinking about the Iridium plugs that looked like they were burning extemely hot and I started wondering if his Catco cat had suffered the demise that I have heard other Catco cats had done. I am wondering if the cat melted inside and is clogging the exhaust ??? I put the valve cover back on and started the car and to be honest, it doesn't feel as if there is that much exhaust coming out of the muffler, even at 5k rpm. The exhaust is a muffler shop special, 2.5" with 2.5" cat and it is all one piece from the header back :-\ So tomorrow, I am going to try a known good dizzy to eliminate the ignition module and a chipped ecu in favor of his jdm unit, if nothing changes, I think I am going to see if he is willing to let me hack into the exhaust to inspect the cat and maybe make a test pipe. I dunno, I hope I am onto something and not just on something, lol. We'll see tomorrow.

Re: 92 CX w/GSR hits VTEC and bleh! (long)
 

if the exhaust is all welded you can pull the o2 sensor and put a pressure gauge in there you should maybe have 2psi @ 2000 rpm with that exhaust. Or if its bolted just unbolt her at the bottem of the header and go for a ripper.

Re: 92 CX w/GSR hits VTEC and bleh! (long)
 

the cata problem sounds very plausible.

i say go run open header. ;D

Re: 92 CX w/GSR hits VTEC and bleh! (long)
 

I don't have an oil gauge hooked up, so I don't know what is going on there. I have tried two vtec solenoids and nothing changes. Incidentally, I also have a CEL saying that something is wrong w/the VTEC sol,but I think it may be computer-related. I think i'm gonna send it back to Xenocron to have it troubleshot (troubleshooted?).

Re: 92 CX w/GSR hits VTEC and bleh! (long)
 

I don't know about the open header thing around here...there is a police outpost about 200 yds down the road from our shop ::) I haven't had a chance to work on it today because we have been working on vinyl graphics for cars and helmets for some Dunlop sponsored cup car challenge or something like that, and it took up the first half of the day. We are about to grab some lunch and then I will try to take a look at it this afternoon after I tend to a set of Wilwood brakes that howl like an RTA bus :-\ I am really hoping it is just the cat. The poor kid that owns this car has had a string of bad luck....he just came in today driving his mom's car because his other car (an 89 MX-6 turbo) had a small starter problem last night which resulted in a small underhood fire :o On top of all the car stress, he is about to ask his girlfriend to marry him today.....he looked a little frazzled :S

Re: 92 CX w/GSR hits VTEC and bleh! (long)
 

ok i just re-read the initial post.

has this guy over revved it at all?

also, did u drain that oil? I remember reading in a OLD honda-tuning magazine that they over filled the oil and it ran like poop, smoking and way way down on power.

I tihnk they put more than 3/4qt extra in, but worth a try.

Re: 92 CX w/GSR hits VTEC and bleh! (long)
 

I had a car come in my shop that the owner took the oil cap of and didn't see any so he filled her up to the top and then drove it in to my shop saying it was gutless and smoked a little. I think I drained 6 extra liters out of the 4 cyl and then she really really smoked bad (cleared up later) :1

Re: 92 CX w/GSR hits VTEC and bleh! (long)
 

I had asked him if he had ever missed a shift or anything that would cause it to over-rev and he said no and no I have not drained the extra oil out as of yet, but read on......

Today he brought me a rebuilt dizzy that he bought, his buddy was supposed to let him borrow one, but was being a dick about it. On top of that, I had a chipped p28 that i was going to put a GSR map on and try in case it was computer related. BUT, my mind just kept going back to the catalytic converter, so I just decided to forego all the other bullshit and headed at the exhaust with a sawzall :4 Chopped it off about 4" behind the cat and unbolted the front part from the header, I pulled it out from under the car and turned it up on end and PLUNK, a number of chunks of MELTED cermanic hit the floor :o I held the cat up to the light and I could not see ---- through it, so I grabbed my longest pry bar and blasted the rest of the internals out of the cat, held it up to the light to see 2.5" of clear pipe :y I put the exhaust back together with a 2.5" I.D. piece of pipe, clamped it up and fired it up.........it died 3 seconds later. I cranked it again, it jumped and then died. So I go look at the fuel pressure gauge with the key on and I have NO reading. I am now reminded that when I owned this car for a short period of time, the ------- main relay acted up every once and a while. So I flick the key on and off till she catched and fire it up, right off the bat, I could tell the car was revving and breathing MUCH better. I let it warm up for a bit, and take it out for a drive. SHE ------- RIPS AGAIN!!!! I didn't get to start on this till about 5:30 and with a trip to AutoZone, dealing with other customers and having to leave early to go pick up a Tux for a wedding this weekend, I didn't have time to finish everything up. So, tomorrow, I am going to pull the main relay, and hit the inside connections with the soldering iron and drain off a little of the oil and I think I am going to fatten up the fuel mix a little. Right now I have the static pressure set at 44psi, I think I might bump it up to like 48. I don't know if it was running too lean and that caused the cat meltdown or if the Catco cat is really just that big of a piece of ----, cause it is only about 7 months old. What do you guys think about the NGK Iridium plugs? Should I put them back in, or leave the stock NGK's in there? He has the MSD Blaster 2 external coil and the MSD cap and rotor on there now. Lemme know what ya think. So I guess it was a pretty good day for the owner of the car, I got to call him and tell him it was running good again and he told me that his girlfriend said yes to his marriage proposal and he was really excited, lol. Thanks for the help fellas and sorry I made some of these posts so long, but hey....it's good to have a little added commentary and if you had anything better to do, you wouldn't be on the internet ;)

Re: 92 CX w/GSR hits VTEC and bleh! (long)
 

I melted the stock Cat in my 5th gen prelude and the f@#$ed stuf up bad my gas milage was 16 mpg and it felt like it was a d series after vtec engagement. I just gutted and everything was back to normal.