trouble economy? recession? "hard times"
01-20-2009, 03:54 AM
#31
1.5 BAR
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 828
Re: trouble economy? recession? "hard times"
Originally Posted by rawr
That's sort of just an irrelevant appeal to authority. It also happens to be a very subjective quote. What exactly is "truly free" and how does something become that by living under the law.
" For as in absolute governments the King is law, so in free countries the law ought to be King; and there ought to be no other."
So you can "TRULY" kiss my ***
Originally Posted by rawr
Only is a universal quantifier. In an argument, you want to try to make a conscious effort to not use them. As when you do, you create an argument that's very hard to prove, yet very easy to disprove. He only needs to come up with one example to the contrary to prove his point, while you're obligated to come up with every solution possible and prove them wrong. For example, your statement says "the only way to change conditions in our country is to have an educated population." I need only to say that conditions can be changed within the country by having an undereducated population in order to prove your argument wrong. Their absoluteness sounds cool, but that absoluteness will also end up being your undoing.
What you said is that an undereducated public would "change" this country, you neglect the fact that i am referring to a positive change and rather than proving my aurgument wrong you avoided it entirely, but I understand your constructive criticism and thank you for the clarification.
What do you propose as a solution to our countries problems?
01-20-2009, 10:50 AM
#32
3.0 BAR
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 5,322
Re: trouble economy? recession? "hard times"
I believe that the idiots sitting and watching TV all day and voting because someone is black or not voting because someone is black, or voting for who their friends are voting for are the problem.
Not that it matters when both candidates will ---- things up anyway.
Not that it matters when both candidates will ---- things up anyway.
01-20-2009, 11:10 AM
#33
0.0 BAR
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 0
Re: trouble economy? recession? "hard times"
Originally Posted by signorelli21
Edit- I misstated that, it took me a while but i dug through the book and found that sentence, this is what it actually says :
" For as in absolute governments the King is law, so in free countries the law ought to be King; and there ought to be no other."
So you can "TRULY" kiss my ***
I see what you are getting at here but this is really just word manipulation and not really proving my statement incorrect, the reason i said the only way to improve conditions in this country is to have an educated population is due to the fact that when looking at opinion polls of various issues, lets take healthcare reform as example, something like 82% of people say that they will place their decision on whom to vote for based on their stance on healthcare reform. So the conclusion you could draw from this is that all a candidate has to do is say they will reform healthcare and they have the votes, but if the public was more educated they would expect a candidate to show how they planned to do this and why their oponent is wrong, and of course they would be able to make this decision without the aid of talk radio hosts or fancy commercials.
What you said is that an undereducated public would "change" this country, you neglect the fact that i am referring to a positive change and rather than proving my aurgument wrong you avoided it entirely, but I understand your constructive criticism and thank you for the clarification.
What do you propose as a solution to our countries problems?
" For as in absolute governments the King is law, so in free countries the law ought to be King; and there ought to be no other."
So you can "TRULY" kiss my ***
I see what you are getting at here but this is really just word manipulation and not really proving my statement incorrect, the reason i said the only way to improve conditions in this country is to have an educated population is due to the fact that when looking at opinion polls of various issues, lets take healthcare reform as example, something like 82% of people say that they will place their decision on whom to vote for based on their stance on healthcare reform. So the conclusion you could draw from this is that all a candidate has to do is say they will reform healthcare and they have the votes, but if the public was more educated they would expect a candidate to show how they planned to do this and why their oponent is wrong, and of course they would be able to make this decision without the aid of talk radio hosts or fancy commercials.
What you said is that an undereducated public would "change" this country, you neglect the fact that i am referring to a positive change and rather than proving my aurgument wrong you avoided it entirely, but I understand your constructive criticism and thank you for the clarification.
What do you propose as a solution to our countries problems?
You didn't say improve, though. You just said change conditions and used the universal quantifier. I wasn't avoiding your argument, I simply was not arguing with you.
Also, I don't think that you can force anyone to become more educated and maintain the notion that the country is free. Some people really do not want to put any effort forth into thinking, and it also happens to be their right in a "free" society. Unfortunately, that's our voting majority. I already sort of addressed the downfalls of voting on a metaphysical level with my reference to cultural relativism, albeit a very abstract reference. Cultural relativism is an ethical concept that more or less states that if a society holds something as ethically true as a collective majority, then it is, and there can be no valid conflicting opinion on that truth, nor can there be any objective truth. It also comes with the stipulation that you can not judge the ethical validity of another cultures value set, as if that culture holds those values on a majority level, they become as equally valid as yours under this theory. This argument is inherently fallacious. I'm not going to get into why, because that would take me a couple paragraphs to articulate on correctly, but voting as a means to come to the conclusion as to what is ethically right in a country is as fallacious as cultural relativism. This is because it operates under the same pretense. The pretense being that if a society holds a value as being true, then it is, which automatically denies their being any sort of objective truths or close to objective truths we should hold as a society regardless of what the general population's belief is.
That being said, I really have no idea how to change society for the better. I can make suggestions, but I know that even if I personally was in power, whatever I proposed to do would be disregarded within a short period of time. You can't really be a advocate of change without just being another ------- adding his opinion as fuel to the flame of the power structure in society.
01-20-2009, 11:13 AM
#34
3.0 BAR
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 5,322
Re: trouble economy? recession? "hard times"
Originally Posted by rawr
Freedom is still just as subjective in that statement. To me freedom is one of those feel good words that people like to hear and commit themselves to collectivist causes for, thus sacrificing their "freedom" in the process.
Democracy goooooood
Communism baaaaaaaaad
:1 :1 :1
There's a lot of words people love, and don't really know why. It just "sounds good."
01-20-2009, 11:54 AM
#35
0.0 BAR
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 0
Re: trouble economy? recession? "hard times"
I cant wait to see what the new declaration will bring
Preparing to board the train, Obama said that "what's required is a new declaration of independence — from ideology and small thinking." click for the article
Preparing to board the train, Obama said that "what's required is a new declaration of independence — from ideology and small thinking." click for the article
01-20-2009, 06:30 PM
#37
3.0 BAR
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 6,449
Re: trouble economy? recession? "hard times"
There is nothing we can do to "improve" our society as a whole.
Something will have to happen to cause that change...haven't you all watched "The Day the Earth Stood Still" yet? It might be fictional...but it certainly has some brilliant undertones.
My belief is that we seriously need to let Darwinism make a come back.
Something will have to happen to cause that change...haven't you all watched "The Day the Earth Stood Still" yet? It might be fictional...but it certainly has some brilliant undertones.
My belief is that we seriously need to let Darwinism make a come back.
