DrSeuss

I can see what you're getting at. Just that you were talking about dyno pulls for max HP. A task honda engineers didn't necessarily have in mind when designing a new engine. I've driven my friends Miata, stupidly fun car, shame he drives it like a ***. Plenty of potential, without fitting a v8.

Perhaps they changed to COP to reduce the likelihood of mechanical failure, along with a change to chain driven cams? COP is quite error prone (you think k-series is bad, try owning a french car), but is still used on pretty much all high performance engines, up to and including exotica like F1 cars and superbikes. I won't try and think of a good reason why, no doubt you've already considered the pro's and cons. I know on the new M5 its used for ion sensing ignition feedback. Which is pretty cool shizzle.

Now i can see that Honda's marketing department have had a much more significant role in designing the EP3 and the K-Series, I also agree that alot of the earlier cars were riddled with design issues very unlike what people have come to expect from Honda.

However, i still fail to believe any of your paranoia about i-vtec and buzz words. You could put i-vtec on top of a b18 and ricers would still buy it unquestioningly. How many people who can buy a new car actually look at the engine bay? Honda's change of engine management technology is driven by a desire to improve. Whether they've actually succeeded, well, time will tell.

Tom-Guy

An engine's ability to handle increased hp (or to the point, higher exhaust valve guide temps) is a direct reflection on build quality and reliability. Also, wtf does i-V-tech have to do with prospective owners never popping the hood?? Its on a freaking sticker on the side of the car so the world can know. Its sticker technology, aimed a people who read Car and Driver and Consumer Reports in order to develop some fake product knowledge so they can run out and buy a car based on decisions made in a vacuum of marketing, with no real experience sought or desired. That is a significant portion of the $25K+ car buying market, Theodore.

JonDouglas

B>K



How often of an occurrence is this though?

Guy-Fast

Again you havent been around the all motor scene in america on the west coast aka all motor world. K series motors pop at the track more than any other style build. You see skunk2 racing anymore,nope. Why because bored/stroked k24's get pricey when you go through one every event. I persoanlly have seen skunk blow up 3 motors at events just 1 year that doesnt include dyno's/rented track time etc. They built a motor that could run 9's get them famous again and sell china parts for a 1000 percent increase in price





The k series has one thing on its side a good flowing head of the box. The h series head isnt far behind with someone who knows what there doing and not doing a scuff and buff on a head and a valve job aka honda-tech port work aka portflow the H wins every time in my book. For boost torque from a large motor is a waste of time. See joey's post see how that car actually runs like a beast/traction etc. Try having traction on a fwd with a 2.4+ motor=honda-tech world of running low 10's at 155 mph and a car that isnt safe in any book spinning slicks isnt cool kids.



The k motors are trends. I ------ hate trends. Trends are for clean cut upper middle class simple minded fools who cant pick a choice in life without their homo friends throwing their 2 pennies in the mix



Again I hate k series motors has much has I hate h-t

JonDouglas

Which is exactly why I have a lot of respect for one of our local shop owners for running 10s with 400 Hp.

Tom-Guy

The split retainer syndrome on automatics, as well as manuals that haven't been over revved and abused? Eh, not as often as I'm making it out to be, but there has been more than one. My criticism about the gearboxes falling apart is valid, tho, as is my commentary on struts, bottom ends ALWAYS blowing to unrebuildable flinders the size of a thumbnail when they go, the utter uselessness of i-V-Tech in anything other than a low rpm high gear bog situation, etc.

They aren't very robust, kids, the cost engineers saw to that. They could build something robust, or they couild build something buzzword=gimmicky. BEHOLD - their decision.

PoweredT3A6

JD...are you doing a Pinks car If you are let me know, I want to know if you want to rock our LCAs, I'll send you a set FREE, just run a small ad on the car.

JonDouglas

I have definitely heard of many a K series transmission chewing up its insides. The technology of iVTEC is neat, but the added complexity is not. Even the original VTAK is stupid ------- simple, (I know you despise it JD ) and you have to admit that it is pretty genius.

Never really been around K's much and don't care to. The current hype surrounding them makes the endeavor into K terrritory too expensive to justify unless you want all motor power (heard of some pretty impressive numbers coming out of them). I'll stick with a B series and continually lust after a D series.

Tom-Guy

It's okay at best, and like I tell everyone: V-Tech is just a good idle. I have no problem rocking the One True B-series cylinder head with a set of Delta regrinds or Crower 404s, depending on budget, and exhibit a supreme indifference to idle quality. VTEC heads with miles on them needing machine shop attention still command $400, whereas I gave B16CRXT a free (to me, and to him) LS head that had just been hot tanked and resurfaced. The big hold up in the LS head is the intake valve, and you can upgrade to B20A3/5 or B21A1 33mm units for free if you ask around.


I am a total sell out consumer -----, and you sir have mail.

HondaTuner

JD, since we're already off topic. Whats your opinion on the other non vtec B series heads? I've never heard you speak of any but the 1.8's.