Seirously running off water, no petrol, 700% gain in energy
 

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/4...CF897F1C96.htm :-X

Re: I wonder if this guy really got offed
 

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...entor+murdered

another longer video.

Re: Seirously running off water, no petrol, 700% gain in energy
 

Hoax. If anything, buddy was killed by one of the suckers he got to "invest" in his scam.

http://www.answers.com/Stan%20Meyer%20#top
The water fuel cell is a perpetual motion device that was supposed to function by breaking water into hydrogen and oxygen gases using less energy than that present in the bond itself. The water fuel cell was claimed to produce several times more energy than it consumed (for instance, by connecting it to an engine that would burn the hydrogen back into water), and a car prototype powered by a water fuel cell was assembled.

Since this concept violates the first law of thermodynamics and this apparatus has never been demonstrated to work or reproduced, it was met with much skepticism and was later found to be a hoax. The purpose of the hoax was likely to attract gullible investors, selling them licensing rights for a "revolutionary" technology. The inventor, Mr. Stanley Meyer (died March 21, 1998), was later successfully sued by some of these disgruntled investors, whom he had sold "dealerships", and convicted for "gross and egregious fraud".

Re: Seirously running off water, no petrol, 700% gain in energy
 

Thats cute and all, but watch the second video.

Re: Seirously running off water, no petrol, 700% gain in energy
 

Thats cute and all, but read the whole article. :-*
It Runs on Water is a video with Stanley Meyer demonstrating the water fuel cell in a car. Meyer claimed that he could run a 1.6 liter Volkswagen Dune buggy on water instead of gasoline. He replaced the spark plugs with "injectors" to spray a fine mist into the engine cylinders, which he claimed were electrified at a resonant frequency. The fuel cell would split water into hydrogen and oxygen gas, which would combust back into water vapor in a conventional hydrogen engine to produce net energy. Estimates made showed that only 22 US gallons (83 L) of water were required to travel from one US coast to the other. Meyer also demonstrated his vehicle for his city's local news station Action 6 News. A video of the buggie in action can be found here.

The vehicle failed to work during a required demonstration of the water-fueled car in a 1990 court case. An Ohio court found Stanley Meyer guilty of "gross and egregious fraud" in a case brought against him by disgruntled investors. The court decided that the centerpiece of the car, his water fuel cell, was a conventional electrolysis device, and he was ordered to repay the investors $25,000.[1]

Re: Seirously running off water, no petrol, 700% gain in energy
 

All that website says is it wasent proven one way or another. Do you know how much money had to be pressing aginst that guy to just make him go away from oil companys? Even if they just beleived him in the slightest thats a ------- HUGE threat. Theres clearly a video of the machine working and the car driving. The video from the news broadcast is from later than 1990.

Re: Seirously running off water, no petrol, 700% gain in energy
 

Who's a jury to decide that. Im sure most of those people couldnt even change their own sparkplugs if they needed to.

Re: Seirously running off water, no petrol, 700% gain in energy
 

Re: Seirously running off water, no petrol, 700% gain in energy
 

Dude, it's physically impossible. He's claiming a perpetual motion machine.

Ever heard the saying about things that sound too good to be true?


Google, do you use it?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.e...0437cd1cee1e7&
Meyer claimed to have adapted a 1.6-litre Volkswagen Dune Buggy to run on
water. He replaced the sparkplugs with "injectors" which, he said, sprayed
water as a fine mist in a "resonant cavity" where it was bombarded by a
succession of high-voltage electrical pulses. He claimed this instantly
converted the water into a mixture of hydrogen and oxygen that could be
combusted in the cylinders, driving the pistons just as in an ordinary
petrol engine.
One of the experts due toexamine the car was Michael Laughton, professor
of electrical engineering at Queen Mary and Westfield University, London,
but he was not allowed to see it. "Although Meyer had known about our
visit weeks in advance, when we arrived he made some lame excuse about why
the car wasn't working, so it was impossible to evaluate it," said
Laughton.
However, the one thing Meyer had built that appeared to work was his Water
Fuel Cell, and it was this device that the Ohio judge called as evidence in
the recent lawsuit.
The cell had been the centrepiece of Meyer's sales pitches. It was a
transparent cylinder of water inside which was a core of stainless steel
electrodes. When plugged into an electrical supply,the cell bubbled away
merrily, producing apparently copious amounts of gas that Meyer ignited
through a welding torch.To the layman it was an impressive performance and
hundreds of small investors signed up, but it did not impress three expert
witnesses in court.
They decided that there was nothing revolutionary about the cell at all and
that it was simply using conventional electrolysis.
Meyer was found guilty of "gross and egregious fraud" and ordered to repay
the investors their $25,000 (£15,000).
http://www.google.com/search?hs=vv9&...ax&btnG=Search

Re: Seirously running off water, no petrol, 700% gain in energy
 

its not perpetual motion when you're using water as a fuel.

Re: Seirously running off water, no petrol, 700% gain in energy
 

You're just specificly searching for biased webpages.

Re: Seirously running off water, no petrol, 700% gain in energy
 

Alright, I'm not going to argue with you about this.

It is physically impossible

Here, read this wikipedia discussion:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Water_fuel_cell
Who sounds like they know what they are talking about, and who sounds like "I WANtZ to RUN a KAr offa DEE WAterZ. ThatS sWeet. Black KHELICPTR gov't dun MURDURd a JENiuz, yO!"

Re: Seirously running off water, no petrol, 700% gain in energy
 

Thats relative to your point of veiw, now isn't it. I dont see these people arguing aginst the idea replicating his process and proving it wrong.

Re: Seirously running off water, no petrol, 700% gain in energy
 

i don;t see what the grounds for augument here is, the idea of hydrogen powered cars has been around for a while, since water contains hydrogen and oxygen wouldn't you assume that it would be an ideal source of fuel for such a vehicle?

also that video i posted shows a different use of water turning into some type of gas called hho, i havent' got around to reading into it much but it seems like a pretty cool idea.

Re: Seirously running off water, no petrol, 700% gain in energy
 

You can split water into hydrogen and oxygen. It takes energy to split the hydrogen-oxygen bond. It takes more energy to split the bond, than you get from burning the resulting hydrogen and oxygen. This is basic 9th grade chemistry. As stated by the laws of thermodynamics... ie, the way ---- works in reality.

Re: Seirously running off water, no petrol, 700% gain in energy
 

i got this from http://www.dangerouslaboratories.org/h2homesystem.pdf
its hydrogen elecrolysys using solor energy

How Much Power Does It Take?
A cubic meter (35.3 cubic feet) of hydrogen gas takes
about 5.9 hours to produce in this electrolyzer, when
operated at its rated input power of 1000 Watts. This
means the energy required to produce a cubic meter of
hydrogen and 0.5 cubic meter of oxygen is about 5.9
kW-hr. This translates to an efficiency of 51%, where 3
kW-hr/m3 equals 100% efficiency at 20°C. Typical
industrial scale plants operate at about 4.5 kW-hr/m3 or
67% efficiency at high current density. The efficiency is
better at lower current density.

Re: Seirously running off water, no petrol, 700% gain in energy
 

Re: Seirously running off water, no petrol, 700% gain in energy
 

These "laws" of thermodynamics that you speak of arent actually laws at all. They are axioms. They can only be proven by expirimentation and therefore arent really laws...more or less just what we have learned from the past and they have become the fundamentals of thermodynamics. :o None of the laws are actually able to be "proved."

Re: Seirously running off water, no petrol, 700% gain in energy
 

So a guy with a bunch of cobbled together tubing and some service-grade $7/per pressure gauges from Grainger.com is going to be able to sidestep limits of physics as we know them, from the comfort of his own backyard?

That's nice.

Re: Seirously running off water, no petrol, 700% gain in energy
 

That is just so wrong on soooo many levels...I think Im gonna shitmyselflaughing to death..Sorry man... but.....AHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHA HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA A aaa hhh aaa ahHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Re: Seirously running off water, no petrol, 700% gain in energy
 

I drank the h2o. It gave me energy. It gave me gas. I had POWER!!!111

Re: Seirously running off water, no petrol, 700% gain in energy
 

He worked in a physics related career all of his life. No one ever beleived Nikola Tesla either, and he also got striped of his patnent for radio waves. Investers always pulled money from him on projects that would have worked. Like Wardenclyffe. Then he died and no one gave a damn until years later.


The links you posted even admited to his method of electrolysis being diffrent. ::)

Re: Seirously running off water, no petrol, 700% gain in energy
 

Isn't that what hes doing? Coverting one form of energy to another..


Also sounds like whats being done.

The only argument is that it takes more energy to split the covalent bond of the hydrogen and oxygen atoms than you get from the hydrogen as energy. If his design can be replicated and the results are positive then thats great. And if it doesn't work like he says and its exactly the same as normal electrolysis then ok, we're still where we were. There is no benefit in meeting this specific idea with scepticism. Expecialy without anyone replicating his fuel cells and simply dismissing them as a hoax to get investment money.

Re: Seirously running off water, no petrol, 700% gain in energy
 

Well, then, find me the patents and any hard technical info.

Re: Seirously running off water, no petrol, 700% gain in energy
 

The technical drawings wont even show up for me.

Re: Seirously running off water, no petrol, 700% gain in energy
 

Found a diffrent website


http://www.rexresearch.com/meyerhy/meyerhy.htm#4389981
http://www.rexresearch.com/meyerhy/meyerhy.htm#4421474
http://www.rexresearch.com/meyerhy/meyerhy.htm#4465455
http://www.rexresearch.com/meyerhy/meyerhy.htm#4613304
http://www.rexresearch.com/meyerhy/meyerhy.htm#4798661
http://www.rexresearch.com/meyerhy/meyerhy.htm#4826581
http://www.rexresearch.com/meyerhy/meyerhy.htm#4936961

Re: Seirously running off water, no petrol, 700% gain in energy
 

Two things to think about.........

Cold Fusion and E + MC^2

Energy cannot be gained nor lost. H2O doesn't have all the extra 'trons to release energy when split.

But I have split a beer atom!

Re: Seirously running off water, no petrol, 700% gain in energy
 

Nothings being split. Just the covalnet bond broken so the hydrogen can be used. I should drive up to grove city and see if one of his fuel cells are lying around:)

Re: Seirously running off water, no petrol, 700% gain in energy
 

From what little I've seen about this, I'm pretty sure he's talking about a "Joe Cell", rather than a "fuel cell". In a fuel cell, water is electrolysed into hydrogen and oxygen. In a Joe Cell, the water is merely a catalyst for a reaction which produces "other gases" (supposedly Brown's gas, and/or Orgone(?)) and is not being split. In other words, it's extracting dissolved gasses from the water that are produced during the catalytic reaction. I have absolutely no knowledge about how or if the so-called Joe Cell works. I'm just supplying some references for you to discuss.

http://www.frank.germano.com/joe_cell.htm

On one hand, it seems to have a lot of observational data supporting it's functionality. On the other hand, the explanation as to how it works sounds VERY unscientific (not that that's nescessarily a bad thing, but it's a possible red flag nonetheless). At this time I neither support or debunk their claims. Further data needed.

Oh, and Frank Germano's not the source of this info, it's merely posted among many other things on his website.

Re: Seirously running off water, no petrol, 700% gain in energy
 

There are fuel celled buses running around the street of Vancouver. I don't get the point of the argument.

Re: Seirously running off water, no petrol, 700% gain in energy
 

First Law of Thermodynamics: Energy can be changed from one form to another, but it cannot be created or destroyed.

Yes that's what he's doing.
But heres the thing. It takes energy to break a bond. In a perfect world, you would get 100% of the energy that you put into breaking the bond back in the converted energy. In the real world, some of energy is wasted in the conversion, thru heat loss, friction, other parasitic losses.

The highest "claimed" efficiency of water electrolysis from a reliable source is 94%, but most claim 50-70%.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrolysis_of_water
Buddy's claim of 700% efficiency flys in the face of EVERYTHING known about the natural world. Read this part again.
First Law of Thermodynamics: Energy can be changed from one form to another, but it cannot be created or destroyed.
You cannot get 7X the energy back.
Complete bullshit.

Standard gasoline engines convert about 40% of the energy stored in gasoline and oxygen into power at the wheels. Most of the wasted energy is lost thru heat and friction.

Combining the efficiencies of electrolysis and the internal combustion engine, I would be suprised if that dune buggy puts 30% of the energy stored in it's battery/s to the ground.

That thing runs temporarily off the energy stored in the battery. I doubt that thing drives more than a few blocks (just long enough for a vid to prove it "works") before the battery runs out of juice for the electrolysis. It is a con.

I would bet my house that a standard golf cart would go farther on the same battery than that dune buggy.


Nope, he's talking about electrolysis, not fuel cells.

You are a little confused. Electrolysis and fuel cells are not the same thing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_cell

Fuel cells and tradition batteries are both more efficient ways of storing and releasing energy than water electrolysis.


If you're so sure this the way of the future, these guys are looking for investors:
http://media.putfile.com/HHO-GAS
They say it's going to be the next Microsoft. :1 You'll be rich! :1 :1 :1 $20 says in 2 years those guys are in court or in Mexico.

http://www.infozine.com/news/stories...iew/sid/13406/

Re: Seirously running off water, no petrol, 700% gain in energy
 

but hes not actualy creating energy. the h2o molecule is just being split into useable hydrogen. By the logic your using to say this is impossible because its a "perpetual motion machine" You could also say a nuclear power plant is a "perpetual motion machine". Another thing is, if you read the patnents hes actualy usuing frequencys to help break the bonds in the molecule wich is diffrent from all of the other electrolysis descriptions ive seen. His cell is also allot more complex that most of the other devices.

Re: Seirously running off water, no petrol, 700% gain in energy
 

:o Excuse me? How the hell did I end up being a supporter of what-the-----'s-'is-name in those articles at the beginning of this thread?
The ONLY thing I was trying to say is that the guy you're al talking about without knowing what HE's talking about is probably talking about this ==>http://www.frank.germano.com/joe_cell.htm, and NOT talking about splitting water apart into hydrogen and oxygen.

Geez, if you're gonna kill the messenger at least know what the ---- message he's delivering. :7 :P
I personally wouldn't stake a dime on what this guy's sellin' , but then again I know better than to judge without knowing the whole story. Thus, my neutrality on the subject.

I just figured you guys might want to argue about SOMETHING, instead of arguing about whether or not you're arguing about the same thing. :P ::)
Oh well...

Re: Seirously running off water, no petrol, 700% gain in energy
 

I'm not even close to being smart enough to participate in this arguement so I'm just going to sit here and look pretty. :l
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Re: Seirously running off water, no petrol, 700% gain in energy
 

Ditto :l

Re: Seirously running off water, no petrol, 700% gain in energy
 

If he's not creating energy out of magic, then he's got a scientific paper to write, becuase the fucker's got some cold fusion going on there.

A nuclear reactor isn't a perpetual motion machine because once the fuel is spent, it's ------- gone. We can't use it again for the purpose. We can make nukes out of some of the leftover ----, but once the energy in the uranium is released, it's not going back in there, and we can't use it again in the reactor.

On the other hand, unless buddy is converting hydrogen and oxygen atoms straight into energy (or unless he's breaking down the minute amounts of heavy water present), we're starting out with X litres of water molecules, and ending with X litres of H2O and energy. ---- just doesn't work like that.

Re: Seirously running off water, no petrol, 700% gain in energy
 

but it is on the internet, it must be true!

Next step,

Quantumelectrodynamics,

Richard Feynman

He also ripped NASA's ass about the Challenger crash.