Slo_crx1

So the s-10 I was going to get fell through (need a new roof on mi casa instead) but I already picked up a nice minty rebuilt garrett 50 trim that I was going to toss on the s-10 (price was good, couldn't pass it up). So instead I've been thinking about burying my pride and buying one of the cheapo chinese blur t3 manifolds that's a knock-off of the full-race piece for the evo and tossing the 50 on the there. It's not going to be much of a step up beyond the 16g6c that I upgraded to a while back (it's rated somewhere around 41lb/min) but a much more linear boost curve and a solid top end pressure line unlike the 16g6c that likes to drop off in boost. With some good tuning I should be able to reach 425awhp on a mustang at my current boost pressure on pump, as compared to my sub 400awhp from a dynojet, or even higher once I get my water/meth setup installed.

Tom-Guy

The 16G likes to drop boost in the upper rpms because it is a ****** internal wastegate.

Is a wastegate problem a reason to trade for a manifold disaster?

Slo_crx1

Actually is has nothing to do with the internal wastgate. I have the upgrade housing from the 6.5 TME with the larger single flapper which really did nothing to help the boost drop off. It's the housing designs themselves that are the issue, but to drop from 25psi to 21psi by redline isn't too bad in my book. It's more of a "I want more linear flow" issue than anything, my turbo's pretty much maxed out at the moment, and my options are either a rebuild to a FP Green 20gLT for $1800 and a 4 month wait, or toss on the 50 trim that has about 3 lb/min more than the FP unit and brace the ---- out of the manifold. For $249 plus the cost of bracing it it's still alot cheaper than an AMS $1400 piece. http://xs-power.com/mitsubishi-turbo-manifolds-4.htm The wastegate would still be a Tial unit, and I have no issues fabricating any necessary pieces for the dp or to fix the manifold. Don't get me wrong, AMS/Buschur/Full Race all make top notch products, but at that point you're paying more for the name in the Evo world. Don't believe me? Look at how much a good set of GSC/JUN/HKS cams cost us. :P

Tom-Guy

A larger flapper is still a ****** ------- failure internal waste of time. But, yes, any turbine housing design that relies on an internal wastegate is to blame for boost taper.


You can brace the $250 chinese manifold to kingdom come, but the pot metal the manifold is made out of will outfail your best effort every time. Bolt the turbo directly to the block, so the mani is just a bunch of tubes with no load on them, and the collector blows a chunk out of it's center. Or you can totally reweld and brace it like Widebody, and the unwelded sections of tube visibly crack every dyno pull - ask Dmc1, he was watching it happen before his eyes.

dummee

Yea after what we seen yesterday up close and personal the ching chong mani=failure..... Don't waste your time, money, or efforts on trying to make it work and last.

Tom-Guy

Funny thing is, one n five of those manifolds does last. :1

"Are you feeling lucky, punk?"

Slo_crx1

I honestly don't believe the flapper is to blame for the taper. On the one Evo site I'm on there is a guy who is logging a solid 26psi to redline on the 16g6c which is unheard of, and all he's been doing to it is porting and smoothing the housing itself, not the flapper. The twin flapper design pulls exhaust from both sides of the split tang housing, where as the single only pulls from the one side...the one closest to the gate. I also have FP's 18psi billet actuator on the turbo, so it's not due in part to the actuator being pushed open. Also keep in mind that there is a boost solenoid controlled by the ecu that usually is set to a 19psi spike with a drop to 15psi in stock form. I have modded the tables to also allow as little of a taper as possible. On these cars, mbc's are uber fail, and ebc's fail just as hard due to cel lights and tossing the car into set #3 of the boost tables.
As for the manifold, ehh...guess I'll take my chances. It's a daily driver anyway, not a track star, and my welding skills are pretty damn good now. Even if I have to cut sections out and replace them with some beefy stainless it's still cheaper.

Tom-Guy

No, flappers cause taper.

I've the ability to program boost solenoids so I can shape the boost curve however I please. I can't take out the taper on internal gates. Totally disconnecting the wastegate hose can't take out the taper.

Slo_crx1

Huh? The first and last comment seem to contradict each other. I've run external gate setups that tapered too, mainly .48 a/r housings on 1.8 and 2.0's that have created too much back pressure against the wheel (one I did pressure test to almost 36psi of backpressure when I only ran 16psi off the turbo with a straight 2.5" exhaust). Even the .63 housing on my 50 trim will probably have a taper to it and I plan on running an external gate in conjunction with the stock BCS. Honestly it really doesn't bother me though if it does taper off by a few psi by redline, I built the car for mostly low-mid through mid-high range power that proves more useful in daily driving than an all high rpm power band.

N1ghtM0nkey

If you're so good at welding, why not just make your own manifold?