Rant about turbo kits
12-10-2003, 12:58 PM
#1
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Join Date: Sep 2003
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Rant about turbo kits
Well i was bored and i went on the honda-tech FI board...someone else is putting out another god damn $3k turbo kit. I mean jesus christ do you think there are enough precision $3k turbo kits....
This is what i think, why cant they make a sub $1500 T3 junkyard style turbo setup. ------- get a deal w/ a turbo rebuilder and go to town. There are a hell of a lot of people that would be willing to spend $1500 for brand new turbo kit that will give them their sub 300whp requirements. Of coarse this would be with like a POS FMU or whatever...but i still think its ---- how no company or vender can put out a god damn turbo kit that is intercooled, doesnt have rubber oil lines, and doesnt have piece of ---- parts. If we can do turbo setup for $800 with used parts why cant they manage to do new turbo setups with the same components for $1500. ------- aggravating there is no simple cheap turbo kit for the people that dont need gay t3/t4. not that t3/t4's are gay, its just not necessary for sub 300whp. maybe im off the mark here...but whatever, this is what i think. I would have been boosted 3 months ago if there was a simple kit available where all i had to do is swap the FMU for a higher quality fuel management and it cost about $1200-1500. Thats my opinion and im sticking to it.
This is what i think, why cant they make a sub $1500 T3 junkyard style turbo setup. ------- get a deal w/ a turbo rebuilder and go to town. There are a hell of a lot of people that would be willing to spend $1500 for brand new turbo kit that will give them their sub 300whp requirements. Of coarse this would be with like a POS FMU or whatever...but i still think its ---- how no company or vender can put out a god damn turbo kit that is intercooled, doesnt have rubber oil lines, and doesnt have piece of ---- parts. If we can do turbo setup for $800 with used parts why cant they manage to do new turbo setups with the same components for $1500. ------- aggravating there is no simple cheap turbo kit for the people that dont need gay t3/t4. not that t3/t4's are gay, its just not necessary for sub 300whp. maybe im off the mark here...but whatever, this is what i think. I would have been boosted 3 months ago if there was a simple kit available where all i had to do is swap the FMU for a higher quality fuel management and it cost about $1200-1500. Thats my opinion and im sticking to it.
12-10-2003, 01:10 PM
#2
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Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 0
Re:Rant about turbo kits
Yeah! I ------- hate turbo kits also. Every turob kit out there comes with crap for fuel management. If I am going to spend a bunch of money I am going to get exactly what I want. Custom/HomeMade is the only way to go.
12-10-2003, 01:18 PM
#4
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 520
Re:Rant about turbo kits
Im ------- baffled why in the year (almost) 2004 turbo kits dont include ROM's. I realize ecu's would have to be socketed, but thats no big deal. I mean lets take what was FMAX, now Turbonetics... they went so far as to include a secondary injector driver, 2 secondary injectors and all the sizzledizzlerizzle needed to make it work.
......... or devel your own/farm it out/use the free tools and include it for exactly $1.50, or whatever a 29c256 runs in bulk qty and call it good.
I understand why they DO what they DO, but for a more 'advanced' user (as most of HMT is) its assclownery at its best.
edit: and I agree with 88crx, there are certain unavoidable costs associated with a *new* turbo kit.
......... or devel your own/farm it out/use the free tools and include it for exactly $1.50, or whatever a 29c256 runs in bulk qty and call it good.
I understand why they DO what they DO, but for a more 'advanced' user (as most of HMT is) its assclownery at its best.
edit: and I agree with 88crx, there are certain unavoidable costs associated with a *new* turbo kit.
12-10-2003, 01:22 PM
#5
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Join Date: Sep 2003
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Re:Rant about turbo kits
My point is mainly this...why cant some douche bag seller ------- provide something for people that dont want to spend $3k for a precision this and that. I can get together a ------- turbo kit for around $1500 with basically everything you need...i dont get why a dealer cant do it for $1200
This is what i think the turbo kit should include in that $1200 shipped to your ------- door step!
Rebuilt T3 Turbo, choice of .42/.48,.48/.60,.60/.63(~$300 shipped on ebay)
Cast Manifold (b or D series)($200-250 for a log manifold, cast should be less)
2.5" DP(A/C and P/S) or a 3" DP(no A/C)($50-70)
Some BOV, maybe a new DSM 1g one or something...i really dont pay much attention to BOV's(Say $50-75)
25"x6"x3" FMIC w/ 2.5" inlets and outlets($200-225)
2.5" Charge pipes to fit an integra or civic($100-150)
Walboro 255 Fuel pump($80)
Cleaned and Rebalanced/reconditioned 450cc Injectors(im not exactly sure how this could work)($75-80)
Stealthmode Oil Line kit with that new fitting he has out and that T that allows to keep the stock oil sensor(TunerToys)($110)
Pipe w/ Air Filter($40)
FMU(BLAH!!!! but you need to give em soemthing)($80-100)
and all the misc fittings and ----($50)
Total: ~$1455...im sure some dealer can do better than me..
If I can do that based on using ebay and various sellers selling stuff in forums, i dont see why one dealer cant get off their fat *** and do it.
There is the completion to my rant.\
BTW: My family has been in buisness forever pretty much...standard markup on any item is 2 or 3 times. So anything you are buying from a dealer...they bought it for a third of that price.
This is what i think the turbo kit should include in that $1200 shipped to your ------- door step!
Rebuilt T3 Turbo, choice of .42/.48,.48/.60,.60/.63(~$300 shipped on ebay)
Cast Manifold (b or D series)($200-250 for a log manifold, cast should be less)
2.5" DP(A/C and P/S) or a 3" DP(no A/C)($50-70)
Some BOV, maybe a new DSM 1g one or something...i really dont pay much attention to BOV's(Say $50-75)
25"x6"x3" FMIC w/ 2.5" inlets and outlets($200-225)
2.5" Charge pipes to fit an integra or civic($100-150)
Walboro 255 Fuel pump($80)
Cleaned and Rebalanced/reconditioned 450cc Injectors(im not exactly sure how this could work)($75-80)
Stealthmode Oil Line kit with that new fitting he has out and that T that allows to keep the stock oil sensor(TunerToys)($110)
Pipe w/ Air Filter($40)
FMU(BLAH!!!! but you need to give em soemthing)($80-100)
and all the misc fittings and ----($50)
Total: ~$1455...im sure some dealer can do better than me..
If I can do that based on using ebay and various sellers selling stuff in forums, i dont see why one dealer cant get off their fat *** and do it.
There is the completion to my rant.\
BTW: My family has been in buisness forever pretty much...standard markup on any item is 2 or 3 times. So anything you are buying from a dealer...they bought it for a third of that price.
12-10-2003, 02:18 PM
#6
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Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,558
Re:Rant about turbo kits
usualy you won't use 450s and a FMU, add $150 bux and put a SAFC in instead of the FMU, and there you go, HTK, hacked turbo kit
or if you wanna use the FMU, subtract the money for the injectors, and blow, you've got a turbo kit, (don't for the the missing link and/or check valves...
or if you wanna use the FMU, subtract the money for the injectors, and blow, you've got a turbo kit, (don't for the the missing link and/or check valves...
12-10-2003, 02:42 PM
#8
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,254
Re:Rant about turbo kits
but you are not taking into account that although it only costs $1500 to make it, you need to mark it up.
I've been thinking about this for a long time now and I think it's possible to pull off, it just needs to somehow be cheaper then that. why not HF's and adaptors (H-Auto has a million of them that they'd sell in bulk probably relatively cheap)? rebuild the turbo yourself? new DSM BOV's are $80 a piece, in bulk could a name brand one be cheaper? The hack would be a better way to go with fuel management, i wouldn't feel right selling kids FMU's and on top of that they'd have the tunability. just sell it with a set of resistors in a pretty box. the lines can be had from stevemode for cheap, fuel line for coolant is not bad (if the turbo is water cooled in the first place) hose clamps, zip ties, thermalflex would sell silicone couplers in bulk. magnaflow sells mandrel in bulk. someone could do the welding. it's very possible. I wish I/WE had the start up capitol to do it.
I've been thinking about this for a long time now and I think it's possible to pull off, it just needs to somehow be cheaper then that. why not HF's and adaptors (H-Auto has a million of them that they'd sell in bulk probably relatively cheap)? rebuild the turbo yourself? new DSM BOV's are $80 a piece, in bulk could a name brand one be cheaper? The hack would be a better way to go with fuel management, i wouldn't feel right selling kids FMU's and on top of that they'd have the tunability. just sell it with a set of resistors in a pretty box. the lines can be had from stevemode for cheap, fuel line for coolant is not bad (if the turbo is water cooled in the first place) hose clamps, zip ties, thermalflex would sell silicone couplers in bulk. magnaflow sells mandrel in bulk. someone could do the welding. it's very possible. I wish I/WE had the start up capitol to do it.
12-10-2003, 02:51 PM
#9
1.0 BAR
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 520
Re:Rant about turbo kits
If I was bored with my life and wanted to start a turbo co I would do the following:
1.) I would use Bosch BOV's on a 'low dollar kit' like the VW TDI's use. They're like 40 dollars NEW, I imagine in bulk they'd be high 20 dollar range.
2.) Also bosch is who makes the VAST majority of all fuel injectors.. I have no idea how much they'd charge for 450's or the like in bulk. I would try and get a quanity of both peak&hold and saturated so people wouldnt need to wire in resistors. Just to make installation easier.
3.) Also I'd include ROM's and donate say 25 bucks off each sale to PGMFI.org and include a ROM for COMMON setups. I'm talking D16Z6's and the like. If you want something exotic, ... go elsewhere.
4.) Manifolds would be cast, and farmed out to slave labor china just like DRAG and everyone else does... cheap :P
5.) Turbos, internally gated who knows what... t3's of some sort probobly.
6.) Charge piping I'd try to farm out too. Whoever makes those bunk AEM knockoff CAI's on ebay would be glad to have another customer I bet.
7.) Intercooler, I don't know. I'm sure I could get someone to crank out me small IC's for not much scratch fitted for my applications.
Anyway if you could figure out the logistics of all that, put together say 5-10 turbo kits initially and see how they sell/are recieved I bet you could have a successful little company.
1.) I would use Bosch BOV's on a 'low dollar kit' like the VW TDI's use. They're like 40 dollars NEW, I imagine in bulk they'd be high 20 dollar range.
2.) Also bosch is who makes the VAST majority of all fuel injectors.. I have no idea how much they'd charge for 450's or the like in bulk. I would try and get a quanity of both peak&hold and saturated so people wouldnt need to wire in resistors. Just to make installation easier.
3.) Also I'd include ROM's and donate say 25 bucks off each sale to PGMFI.org and include a ROM for COMMON setups. I'm talking D16Z6's and the like. If you want something exotic, ... go elsewhere.
4.) Manifolds would be cast, and farmed out to slave labor china just like DRAG and everyone else does... cheap :P
5.) Turbos, internally gated who knows what... t3's of some sort probobly.
6.) Charge piping I'd try to farm out too. Whoever makes those bunk AEM knockoff CAI's on ebay would be glad to have another customer I bet.
7.) Intercooler, I don't know. I'm sure I could get someone to crank out me small IC's for not much scratch fitted for my applications.
Anyway if you could figure out the logistics of all that, put together say 5-10 turbo kits initially and see how they sell/are recieved I bet you could have a successful little company.
