Question for you Mustang people...
06-01-2005, 09:54 PM
#32
0.0 BAR
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 0
Re: Question for you Mustang people...
Originally Posted by Alex in Houston
Damn, so much misgiven info I not sure where to start.
if I were new to the Mustang game, I wouldn't even look into a pushrod motor. I'd jump straighjt into a modular. Mods are actually cheaper to build and a hell of a lot stronger to start with. to build a 800 plus cpapble Modular (4.6/5.4) all youy need are Rods and pistons. The Block is fine (---- four bolt mains,,,,,,,Try 6!! )
The crank is fine (and you could always drop in a Cobra crank if you needed extra insurance for 1000 hp ) The heads can be ported (hell, most running the Navi 5.4 heads are factory stock and flow well into the 1200 HP level) but it's really not a must do. The powder rods and the hyper pistons are the only weak links in the Mod motors. hell, the 03/04 Cobra has Manley H-Beam rods, Forged Pistons and the above mentioned block and 4 cams! it's really built to handle well into the 800 HP range from the factory.
To get those same power levels with a pushrod, you need an aftermarket block, rods, crank, pistons, heads, valve train and cam. Easily into the 7 large range and that's finding deals on used stuff!
On the V6 not being a strong/powerful motor. bull, it's built better then it's big cousin the 5.0! The block doesn't split in the 500 hp range as the 5.0 does. It's crank won't walk like a 5.0 does and the heads are already a decent set of aluminum units. Properly ported with larger valves and they're flowing quite well.
Put boost to the V6 and it handles it well. Case in point, the 3.8 in my brothers 95 SuperCoupe. Stock block, ported stock heads with big valves, stock cam, Mac Long tube Headers from a V-6 Mustang modified (cut, rotated, re-welded) to fit the t-Bird chasis, and the stock Eaton Charger with a 10% pulley. The little 3.8 put down 340HP and hold onto your little 1,8's..........................412TQ!
Now the drawback to the 3.8 are parts are either un-available or crazy high! We have the motor out and fresh from the machine shop right now. Finding a set of forged pistons off the shelf is not possible. they don't exist. Had tp have a set made by Ross ($740 for 6 pistons) the 95 had full floating rods and one of his got chewed uo (which is why we re-built it) Trying to find one of those almost made us scrap the whole damn thing (giot lucky and found a dealer that sold us the last 4 he had. Only needed one, but bought them all just in case!). Those are just a few of the issues (clevite must of had a drunk guy on the CNC machine the day they did a run of 3.8 bearings, the thrust bearing for everyone of the boxes we opened in the parts store was incorrect! So now we're looking for some damn main and rod bearings!) that would make me not build another performance 3.8
Hell, the motor of choice for power and affordablity in the ford camp is actually the 2.3T. the block, crank, rods are all good well intro the 400 hp range stock. The head has issues with cracking (they all do, but we run them wit hthe cracks just fine) but they still flow well with mild port work, big valves and some bowl work. Parts are plentiful (tons of 2.3's out there) mods are easy (any car starting off with a turbo is usually easy to mod) and the motor doesn't need a ton of high dollar parts to make it strong enough to handle 10 second power!
Hoipe this helps I'll exit my Soap box now
if I were new to the Mustang game, I wouldn't even look into a pushrod motor. I'd jump straighjt into a modular. Mods are actually cheaper to build and a hell of a lot stronger to start with. to build a 800 plus cpapble Modular (4.6/5.4) all youy need are Rods and pistons. The Block is fine (---- four bolt mains,,,,,,,Try 6!! )
The crank is fine (and you could always drop in a Cobra crank if you needed extra insurance for 1000 hp ) The heads can be ported (hell, most running the Navi 5.4 heads are factory stock and flow well into the 1200 HP level) but it's really not a must do. The powder rods and the hyper pistons are the only weak links in the Mod motors. hell, the 03/04 Cobra has Manley H-Beam rods, Forged Pistons and the above mentioned block and 4 cams! it's really built to handle well into the 800 HP range from the factory.
To get those same power levels with a pushrod, you need an aftermarket block, rods, crank, pistons, heads, valve train and cam. Easily into the 7 large range and that's finding deals on used stuff!
On the V6 not being a strong/powerful motor. bull, it's built better then it's big cousin the 5.0! The block doesn't split in the 500 hp range as the 5.0 does. It's crank won't walk like a 5.0 does and the heads are already a decent set of aluminum units. Properly ported with larger valves and they're flowing quite well.
Put boost to the V6 and it handles it well. Case in point, the 3.8 in my brothers 95 SuperCoupe. Stock block, ported stock heads with big valves, stock cam, Mac Long tube Headers from a V-6 Mustang modified (cut, rotated, re-welded) to fit the t-Bird chasis, and the stock Eaton Charger with a 10% pulley. The little 3.8 put down 340HP and hold onto your little 1,8's..........................412TQ!
Now the drawback to the 3.8 are parts are either un-available or crazy high! We have the motor out and fresh from the machine shop right now. Finding a set of forged pistons off the shelf is not possible. they don't exist. Had tp have a set made by Ross ($740 for 6 pistons) the 95 had full floating rods and one of his got chewed uo (which is why we re-built it) Trying to find one of those almost made us scrap the whole damn thing (giot lucky and found a dealer that sold us the last 4 he had. Only needed one, but bought them all just in case!). Those are just a few of the issues (clevite must of had a drunk guy on the CNC machine the day they did a run of 3.8 bearings, the thrust bearing for everyone of the boxes we opened in the parts store was incorrect! So now we're looking for some damn main and rod bearings!) that would make me not build another performance 3.8
Hell, the motor of choice for power and affordablity in the ford camp is actually the 2.3T. the block, crank, rods are all good well intro the 400 hp range stock. The head has issues with cracking (they all do, but we run them wit hthe cracks just fine) but they still flow well with mild port work, big valves and some bowl work. Parts are plentiful (tons of 2.3's out there) mods are easy (any car starting off with a turbo is usually easy to mod) and the motor doesn't need a ton of high dollar parts to make it strong enough to handle 10 second power!
Hoipe this helps I'll exit my Soap box now
06-01-2005, 10:05 PM
#33
1.0 BAR
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 276
Re: Question for you Mustang people...
Originally Posted by random-strike
alex is lovin the 2.3t dd arent ya 
Hell, it just doesn't give me any issues and makes good power!
My 5.0 always needs something or a tweek here and there. I need a Mass Air Meter now (tired of fooling with the C&L I have now)
I like the killer power I have with the TT5.0, just the maintenance is no fun!
06-02-2005, 12:17 AM
#36
0.5 BAR
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 137
Re: Question for you Mustang people...
Originally Posted by Alex in Houston
Damn, so much misgiven info I not sure where to start.
if I were new to the Mustang game, I wouldn't even look into a pushrod motor. I'd jump straighjt into a modular. Mods are actually cheaper to build and a hell of a lot stronger to start with. to build a 800 plus cpapble Modular (4.6/5.4) all youy need are Rods and pistons. The Block is fine (---- four bolt mains,,,,,,,Try 6!! )
The crank is fine (and you could always drop in a Cobra crank if you needed extra insurance for 1000 hp ) The heads can be ported (hell, most running the Navi 5.4 heads are factory stock and flow well into the 1200 HP level) but it's really not a must do. The powder rods and the hyper pistons are the only weak links in the Mod motors. hell, the 03/04 Cobra has Manley H-Beam rods, Forged Pistons and the above mentioned block and 4 cams! it's really built to handle well into the 800 HP range from the factory.
To get those same power levels with a pushrod, you need an aftermarket block, rods, crank, pistons, heads, valve train and cam. Easily into the 7 large range and that's finding deals on used stuff!
On the V6 not being a strong/powerful motor. bull, it's built better then it's big cousin the 5.0! The block doesn't split in the 500 hp range as the 5.0 does. It's crank won't walk like a 5.0 does and the heads are already a decent set of aluminum units. Properly ported with larger valves and they're flowing quite well.
Put boost to the V6 and it handles it well. Case in point, the 3.8 in my brothers 95 SuperCoupe. Stock block, ported stock heads with big valves, stock cam, Mac Long tube Headers from a V-6 Mustang modified (cut, rotated, re-welded) to fit the t-Bird chasis, and the stock Eaton Charger with a 10% pulley. The little 3.8 put down 340HP and hold onto your little 1,8's..........................412TQ!
Now the drawback to the 3.8 are parts are either un-available or crazy high! We have the motor out and fresh from the machine shop right now. Finding a set of forged pistons off the shelf is not possible. they don't exist. Had tp have a set made by Ross ($740 for 6 pistons) the 95 had full floating rods and one of his got chewed uo (which is why we re-built it) Trying to find one of those almost made us scrap the whole damn thing (giot lucky and found a dealer that sold us the last 4 he had. Only needed one, but bought them all just in case!). Those are just a few of the issues (clevite must of had a drunk guy on the CNC machine the day they did a run of 3.8 bearings, the thrust bearing for everyone of the boxes we opened in the parts store was incorrect! So now we're looking for some damn main and rod bearings!) that would make me not build another performance 3.8
Hell, the motor of choice for power and affordablity in the ford camp is actually the 2.3T. the block, crank, rods are all good well intro the 400 hp range stock. The head has issues with cracking (they all do, but we run them wit hthe cracks just fine) but they still flow well with mild port work, big valves and some bowl work. Parts are plentiful (tons of 2.3's out there) mods are easy (any car starting off with a turbo is usually easy to mod) and the motor doesn't need a ton of high dollar parts to make it strong enough to handle 10 second power!
Hoipe this helps I'll exit my Soap box now
if I were new to the Mustang game, I wouldn't even look into a pushrod motor. I'd jump straighjt into a modular. Mods are actually cheaper to build and a hell of a lot stronger to start with. to build a 800 plus cpapble Modular (4.6/5.4) all youy need are Rods and pistons. The Block is fine (---- four bolt mains,,,,,,,Try 6!! )
The crank is fine (and you could always drop in a Cobra crank if you needed extra insurance for 1000 hp ) The heads can be ported (hell, most running the Navi 5.4 heads are factory stock and flow well into the 1200 HP level) but it's really not a must do. The powder rods and the hyper pistons are the only weak links in the Mod motors. hell, the 03/04 Cobra has Manley H-Beam rods, Forged Pistons and the above mentioned block and 4 cams! it's really built to handle well into the 800 HP range from the factory.
To get those same power levels with a pushrod, you need an aftermarket block, rods, crank, pistons, heads, valve train and cam. Easily into the 7 large range and that's finding deals on used stuff!
On the V6 not being a strong/powerful motor. bull, it's built better then it's big cousin the 5.0! The block doesn't split in the 500 hp range as the 5.0 does. It's crank won't walk like a 5.0 does and the heads are already a decent set of aluminum units. Properly ported with larger valves and they're flowing quite well.
Put boost to the V6 and it handles it well. Case in point, the 3.8 in my brothers 95 SuperCoupe. Stock block, ported stock heads with big valves, stock cam, Mac Long tube Headers from a V-6 Mustang modified (cut, rotated, re-welded) to fit the t-Bird chasis, and the stock Eaton Charger with a 10% pulley. The little 3.8 put down 340HP and hold onto your little 1,8's..........................412TQ!
Now the drawback to the 3.8 are parts are either un-available or crazy high! We have the motor out and fresh from the machine shop right now. Finding a set of forged pistons off the shelf is not possible. they don't exist. Had tp have a set made by Ross ($740 for 6 pistons) the 95 had full floating rods and one of his got chewed uo (which is why we re-built it) Trying to find one of those almost made us scrap the whole damn thing (giot lucky and found a dealer that sold us the last 4 he had. Only needed one, but bought them all just in case!). Those are just a few of the issues (clevite must of had a drunk guy on the CNC machine the day they did a run of 3.8 bearings, the thrust bearing for everyone of the boxes we opened in the parts store was incorrect! So now we're looking for some damn main and rod bearings!) that would make me not build another performance 3.8
Hell, the motor of choice for power and affordablity in the ford camp is actually the 2.3T. the block, crank, rods are all good well intro the 400 hp range stock. The head has issues with cracking (they all do, but we run them wit hthe cracks just fine) but they still flow well with mild port work, big valves and some bowl work. Parts are plentiful (tons of 2.3's out there) mods are easy (any car starting off with a turbo is usually easy to mod) and the motor doesn't need a ton of high dollar parts to make it strong enough to handle 10 second power!
Hoipe this helps I'll exit my Soap box now
where are you getting your info from? i think the only mis-information here is what you are saying...
There is no way in hell you can say that a modular is cheaper to mod, whatever you are smoking you need to share...
I can build a pushrod motor way less than 7k, I have no idea where the ---- you got that from. The block is fine, and parts are cheap. ---- I could build a pushrod small block for the same price you pay for a ------- b series motor swap. Unless you are a dumbfuck and buy parts at full retail from vendor's who ---- you, you can build a small block for 2k or less (depending on what parts you use, etc.).
I will agree with the 03/04 cobra motor. they are built for major power, but again, more expensive...
The 3.8 is a good motor, i've seen great things come from moderate mods. A lot of guys turbo the v6, its cheap, easy and makes great power....but its still not a v8...
Maybe i'm biased towards the pushrod small block. My first car was an fox body mustang with a 5.0. I got 290k miles on the ORIGINAL motor. Not once did i have to open up the motor for any reason. Not even a blown HG. And i tore that thing up...
My dad still has the car, he's pushing over 450hp to the wheels on the stock shortblock.
Basically, it comes down to what you can afford. The pushrod small block IS CHEAPER period. Plus, I hate that hollow sound of those modular motors....
06-02-2005, 12:34 AM
#39
0.5 BAR
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 137
Re: Question for you Mustang people...
ok i will agree....to a point.
it depends on how much power you are looking for. a 500+ hp reliable 302, you'd need an aftermarket block. anything less, you will be fine on the stock block...
it depends on how much power you are looking for. a 500+ hp reliable 302, you'd need an aftermarket block. anything less, you will be fine on the stock block...
06-02-2005, 12:40 AM
#40
0.0 BAR
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 0
Re: Question for you Mustang people...
Originally Posted by krazywhitboy
ok i will agree....to a point.
it depends on how much power you are looking for. a 500+ hp reliable 302, you'd need an aftermarket block. anything less, you will be fine on the stock block...
it depends on how much power you are looking for. a 500+ hp reliable 302, you'd need an aftermarket block. anything less, you will be fine on the stock block...
