My slow ass DSM build up
09-14-2007, 01:35 AM
#31
0.0 BAR
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 0
Re: My slow *** DSM build up
Originally Posted by D Grade
- 12.67 @ 107 with a 1.7 60'
- Stock wastegate flapper, unported wastegate passage. Caused boost to spike to a level, then drop off a psi or two as rmps go up. That be boost spike, yo.
- I needed some form of tuning adjustability for the 550cc's, right? Plus whynot? The 3" GM MAF sensor itself is a mod, it outflows the 1G MAS quite a bit. Easier to tune than an SAFC (even though not quite as acurate), no hack job required, option to go blow-through, etc... Need I go on? Power level doesn't matter to me as of why I got it, I got the MAFT for tuning and for improvement under driving condition over the 1G MAS along with the flow factor over the 1G MAS. Plus MAFT's go a long way, and I knew over time that the longer I had that DSM, the more I'd want to eventually upgrade.
- I don't believe it costs that much to add the 34mm WG option. I believe the Evo III B16G comes with a 34mm stock, but I could be wrong.
- You tell me why cfm and airflow isn't relevant. Are compressor maps irrelevant too?
- I didn't say that, I did however mention efficient spool up.
- Again, I never said it effected compressor efficiency. Porting smooths cast flaws and improves airflow by enlarging ports. Porting also helps with boost spike and boost creep in relation to porting of the WG port of the exhaust housing (when running an internal gate).
- Full boost by 3200rpms, full bolt on, yet can hold 24psi. What's not efficient about it? Look, and I mean LOOK for times of maxed out B16G powered cars with FULL supporting mods (and no spray or alcohol injection). I guarantee they arent running 13's like you say they are.
- Stock wastegate flapper, unported wastegate passage. Caused boost to spike to a level, then drop off a psi or two as rmps go up. That be boost spike, yo.
- I needed some form of tuning adjustability for the 550cc's, right? Plus whynot? The 3" GM MAF sensor itself is a mod, it outflows the 1G MAS quite a bit. Easier to tune than an SAFC (even though not quite as acurate), no hack job required, option to go blow-through, etc... Need I go on? Power level doesn't matter to me as of why I got it, I got the MAFT for tuning and for improvement under driving condition over the 1G MAS along with the flow factor over the 1G MAS. Plus MAFT's go a long way, and I knew over time that the longer I had that DSM, the more I'd want to eventually upgrade.
- I don't believe it costs that much to add the 34mm WG option. I believe the Evo III B16G comes with a 34mm stock, but I could be wrong.
- You tell me why cfm and airflow isn't relevant. Are compressor maps irrelevant too?
- I didn't say that, I did however mention efficient spool up.
- Again, I never said it effected compressor efficiency. Porting smooths cast flaws and improves airflow by enlarging ports. Porting also helps with boost spike and boost creep in relation to porting of the WG port of the exhaust housing (when running an internal gate).
- Full boost by 3200rpms, full bolt on, yet can hold 24psi. What's not efficient about it? Look, and I mean LOOK for times of maxed out B16G powered cars with FULL supporting mods (and no spray or alcohol injection). I guarantee they arent running 13's like you say they are.
CFM's are irrelevant because a 16G is probably flowing 550 CFM @ 2 psi. yes thats right boost pressure and CFM are irrelevant to each other.
full boost by 3200? keep dreaming. he did have an E316G on his car at one point so he is speaking from experience. the car was pretty lame with a 16g on it. the 50 trim thats on it now is a different story.
09-14-2007, 01:41 AM
#32
1.0 BAR
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 464
Re: My slow *** DSM build up
- That's not bad
- So you mean you spiked 20psi and held 18psi, not the other way around
- MAF-T "tuning" is on par with an FMU and the sensor itself is horribly inaccurate. Not my cup of tea, but if it worked, it worked.
- No, it doesn't come with one. And the option is around $100-150
- CFM is not relevant, lbs/min is. This is where many 16g diciples are mislead.
- You didn't?
- You didn't?
- Peak efficiency on a B16G is 71%. Where most people are operating them is in the <65% range. That's MISERABLE for any turbo. It's a shitty turbo, plain and simple. The small and Evo are good turbos for <300hp though. I was also exaggerating with the 13's, although many people around here are stuck with that.
Proof that 16g's suck ***: http://www.redtube.com/2393
- So you mean you spiked 20psi and held 18psi, not the other way around
- MAF-T "tuning" is on par with an FMU and the sensor itself is horribly inaccurate. Not my cup of tea, but if it worked, it worked.
- No, it doesn't come with one. And the option is around $100-150
- CFM is not relevant, lbs/min is. This is where many 16g diciples are mislead.
- You didn't?
every turbo reaches its peak efficiency sooner or later meaning a turbo is good for X amount of boost.
a ported 14B turbo is good for power till 17-18psi, a ported small 16G 20-21psi, and a ported B16G around 23-24psi
Proof that 16g's suck ***: http://www.redtube.com/2393
09-14-2007, 01:44 AM
#33
0.5 BAR
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 137
Re: My slow *** DSM build up
Originally Posted by CoreyR
1. MAFT cars run like ----. and AFC's arent hard to tune with.
2. CFM's are irrelevant because a 16G is probably flowing 550 CFM @ 2 psi. yes thats right boost pressure and CFM are irrelevant to each other.
3. full boost by 3200? keep dreaming. he did have an E316G on his car at one point so he is speaking from experience. the car was pretty lame with a 16g on it. the 50 trim thats on it now is a different story.
2. CFM's are irrelevant because a 16G is probably flowing 550 CFM @ 2 psi. yes thats right boost pressure and CFM are irrelevant to each other.
3. full boost by 3200? keep dreaming. he did have an E316G on his car at one point so he is speaking from experience. the car was pretty lame with a 16g on it. the 50 trim thats on it now is a different story.
2. Got me there. :1
3. Maybe I was over exagerating. 3200 is pretty much 14B territory. 3400rpms is more like it. Yet I don't know why he had problems making decent power and times with a B16G. There are dozens of people who have pulled off some remarkable times with this turbo with a very reasonable amount of money invested.
And I agree, 50 Trizzle > B16G
09-14-2007, 01:45 AM
#34
1.0 BAR
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 464
Re: My slow *** DSM build up
Originally Posted by CoreyR
full boost by 3200? keep dreaming. he did have an E316G on his car at one point so he is speaking from experience. the car was pretty lame with a 16g on it. the 50 trim thats on it now is a different story.
09-14-2007, 01:51 AM
#35
0.5 BAR
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 137
Re: My slow *** DSM build up
Originally Posted by AWDstylez
- That's not bad
- So you mean you spiked 20psi and held 18psi, not the other way around
- MAF-T "tuning" is on par with an FMU and the sensor itself is horribly inaccurate. Not my cup of tea, but if it worked, it worked.
- No, it doesn't come with one. And the option is around $100-150
- CFM is not relevant, lbs/min is. This is where many 16g diciples are mislead.
- You didn't?
- You didn't?
- Peak efficiency on a B16G is 71%. Where most people are operating them is in the <65% range. That's MISERABLE for any turbo. It's a shitty turbo, plain and simple. The small and Evo are good turbos for <300hp though. I was also exaggerating with the 13's, although many people around here are stuck with that.
Proof that 16g's suck ***: http://www.redtube.com/2393
- So you mean you spiked 20psi and held 18psi, not the other way around
- MAF-T "tuning" is on par with an FMU and the sensor itself is horribly inaccurate. Not my cup of tea, but if it worked, it worked.
- No, it doesn't come with one. And the option is around $100-150
- CFM is not relevant, lbs/min is. This is where many 16g diciples are mislead.
- You didn't?
- You didn't?
- Peak efficiency on a B16G is 71%. Where most people are operating them is in the <65% range. That's MISERABLE for any turbo. It's a shitty turbo, plain and simple. The small and Evo are good turbos for <300hp though. I was also exaggerating with the 13's, although many people around here are stuck with that.
Proof that 16g's suck ***: http://www.redtube.com/2393
- Yes, I spiked not crept.
- I don't think it's nearly as bad as an FMU, but I agree, it's not the most acurate. For instance you can tune to a fine percentage between 16 adjustment points with an SAFC2, with a MAFT I believe is 5% for every setting which has 6 +/- if I remember right.
- I stand corrected. Worthy mod for someone set on an internal gate.
- Stood corrected on CoreyR's post.
- I still stand by the fact that that's just one seperate case of a shitty 16G setup. Me personally, I used to want to go that route back in the day. However, better bang-for-the-buck ---- comes out every year. But still, I've seen good times put down using a B16G. To each their own.
09-14-2007, 04:38 AM
#37
1.5 BAR
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,194
Re: My slow *** DSM build up
The 16G is a decent turbo for 300bhp. That is the power level it's designed to run efficiently, and does quite well in the group N rally cars with a 34mm restrictor. If you want more power then there are some more efficient choices available.
MAF translators and AFCs both suck because they cannot adjust the spark timing or part throttle fuelling independant of full throttle fuelling.
MAF translators and AFCs both suck because they cannot adjust the spark timing or part throttle fuelling independant of full throttle fuelling.
09-14-2007, 08:55 AM
#39
3.0 BAR
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: NE-PA
Posts: 4,666
Re: My slow *** DSM build up
All that stuff on the b16g with the 7cm^2 hotside is all well and good, but what about the tdo5hr/16g6c with the 10.5cm^2 hot side? I've been trying to find some flow numbers on this sucker and can't seem to come across any. Split tang and reverse rotation sucks *** though, and it looks like either an FP evo-green or a gt30 will be in my future. :P
09-14-2007, 09:18 AM
#40
3.0 BAR
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,330
Re: My slow *** DSM build up
Originally Posted by baldur
The 16G is a decent turbo for 300bhp. That is the power level it's designed to run efficiently, and does quite well in the group N rally cars with a 34mm restrictor. If you want more power then there are some more efficient choices available.
All the "small-shaft" MHI turbos suck. They arent anything I would like to consider reliable, and more or less everything AWDstylez said about them is true. Exhaust housing is **** poor for a turbo of this day and age, and is far inferior to the generic t3 design.
Its wasteful to build a respectible "drag" car with one, unless your dad is one of the engineers who helped design the articulated trucks for CAT, in which case MHI turbos are basically free........
