Individual Carburated Throttle Bodies on Honda engine?
 

jus came back from a local shop, ran into some of the oldschool racers that i used to watch when i was like 14. well he pops his hood n i notice his "ITB's" so i asked, about them.. he stops me n says "those aint ITB's, there individual carburators". i never even knew people could do that to a honda engine. anyone kno any info on doing this? i didn't wanna ask him to many questions bout it cuz i didnt wanna bug him but what are they advantages of doing this? what kinda gains or power can be held when doing this? no more ecu, harness, jus the basic ---- to start it up n what not.. no injectors. he had it mated up to an ls-v but no vtec cuz no ecu, with direct port nitrous. i dont kno why but they always do ls-v projects but dont even run the vtec. they say something with that head and block combo makes it run stronger then a regular ls motor.

anyone got any info on this? thanks

Re: Individual Carburated Throttle Bodies on Honda engine?
 

the vtec is the easy part, you could just use some sort of switch to pop the solenoid. whats he using to manage the spark?

Re: Individual Carburated Throttle Bodies on Honda engine?
 

they choose to "not" run vtec. they jus want the ls with vtec head combo. for spark i have no idea, i saw an msd coil blaster or some ----. i didn't ask to many questions on the setup. just saw it and aw'd over it.

Re: Individual Carburated Throttle Bodies on Honda engine?
 

pressurized fuel into a rack of carbs? how's that work?

Re: Individual Carburated Throttle Bodies on Honda engine?
 

dont think he's runnin a pump? carb's run off vaccum. but the carbs have some kinda mini fuel tank under each carb. i wanna kno how he did this =x i wanna try out a straight LS carb'd turbo setup.

Re: Individual Carburated Throttle Bodies on Honda engine?
 

I'd get it on and running correctly before thinking about turbo.. that'd be a tough project.. good luck if you do it.

I'm also curious, what kind of carburators would you use on this type of application?

Re: Individual Carburated Throttle Bodies on Honda engine?
 

carbureted cars do have fuel pumps, they don't work by black magic

Re: Individual Carburated Throttle Bodies on Honda engine?
 

there are lots of carborated hondas out there, chris has one I believe. weber mukini and delorto come to mind for carbs and intakes and I have seen some with street bike carbs also, trust me he has a fuel pump ;)

Re: Individual Carburated Throttle Bodies on Honda engine?
 

yah they have pumps but the fuel pressure is a lot lower than fuel injected engines

Re: Individual Carburated Throttle Bodies on Honda engine?
 

they could be using those i think toda vtec killer cams lol, so all the lobes are the same size as when vtec hits, somtimes bigger...

Re: Individual Carburated Throttle Bodies on Honda engine?
 

a lot of Old school VW guys run side draughts. some 40's would do nice on a LS.
you can run absolutely massive cams on carbs.

Re: Individual Carburated Throttle Bodies on Honda engine?
 

to run a carb with a high pressure pump you just loop the feed and return fuel lines, and then T into it and restrict the return line just enough to get the sort of pressure the carb needs.

and for not using vtec, the reason they do that is because if its a race engine, theres really no need for vtec, because if your always in high rpm, vtec will always be activated therefore its the same as having a higher lobe cam.

so they use the higher flowing vtec head instead of having to work over a non-vtec head to the same performance

Re: Individual Carburated Throttle Bodies on Honda engine?
 

some individual carbs have little vaccume fuel pumps on the unit itself and dont need a fuel pump they could use the stock ecu for spark if it doesnt cel to death

Re: Individual Carburated Throttle Bodies on Honda engine?
 

motorcycles carbs have float bowls, i'm asuming if he's running ind carbs that they are something off an inline 4
motorcycle, if the fuel level is too high in the float bowl, it causes a rich condition. Carb'd bikes run off gravity
feed and vacuum, depending on the petcock, and have a float valve that stops the fuel from coming in, i just
dont see how it could work under psi. (i'm sure there is a way though)

Re: Individual Carburated Throttle Bodies on Honda engine?
 

not all carbed motorcycles are gravity feed some have little fuel pumps that look like a remote water pump or somthing. it wouldent be to hard to do somthing to get fuel to the carbs. and usualy if the fuel level is to high in the float bowl it drains out a vent tube and its not an issue other than there being gasoline running out of the vents on the carbs and getting everywhere.

Re: Individual Carburated Throttle Bodies on Honda engine?
 

keep in mind that generally carbs are harder to control and tune...which is why fuel injection is so much more common and just all around better.

Re: Individual Carburated Throttle Bodies on Honda engine?
 

word. i couldent immagine trying to start a 1800cc individualy carbed engine in the winter. plus carbs have allot of lag in them and there not smooth. expecialy larger carbs. the engine will feel like it has nothing at all then suddenly its balls out. sucks ass realy. with fuel injectors you can tune around that so it runs decent and its driveable. although carbs would be ok for racing if you get pissed off at efi systems or somthing.

Re: Individual Carburated Throttle Bodies on Honda engine?
 

when there is more fuel in the float bowl there is more fuel going out of the circuits into the engine. duh.
sure it will overflow and drain when the bike is off, but what is it doing when the bike is running? This is
why there is a spec for carb float height. I thought you worked in a shop? Know of any bikes off the top of
your head with that pump?, i haven't seen one my whole time in school, must be a pretty rare deal?

Re: Individual Carburated Throttle Bodies on Honda engine?
 

no tps, map, iat, iacv, injectos.... i dont think any ecu would like that. it would be in limp mode definatly

Re: Individual Carburated Throttle Bodies on Honda engine?
 

wetbikes. :P and if its a mikuni carb and the floats off and the needle is letting to much fuel in usualy it runs straight out of the vent tube. ive done it a few times putting the caps back on. it kinda depends on how the carb is set up. ive had some run straight out and some will just make the engine run fat as hell.

Re: Individual Carburated Throttle Bodies on Honda engine?
 

Honda Tuning ran an article of a 90's rex with dual weber side drafts.

Generally speaking a carb creates a better fuel atomization then a typical Injection setup. This is why alot of all motor and autocross guy like it. They are grasping ever ounce of power they car and this is one way they can do it. They don't care
about economy, boost, are fine "Around Town" tuning.

Re: Individual Carburated Throttle Bodies on Honda engine?
 

wtf, an injector's ability to atomize fuel is 10x better than a carb.

Re: Individual Carburated Throttle Bodies on Honda engine?
 

Not true. A Weber Side Draft Carb is known for it's ability to completely break up the particles of fuel for proper atomization. Do some research you'll find out. Trust me, people just don't switch Injected Vehicles over because it "looks cool"!

Re: Individual Carburated Throttle Bodies on Honda engine?
 

I've used Webers in the past [not a honda] and the main problem is they are a real bitch to tune and they need constant adjustments based on elevation etc.I'm not much of a carb tuner either so that didn't help.I imagine you could use a crank trigger setup.They sound beuftiful at full throttle and make for a super clean engine bay with next to no wires.

Re: Individual Carburated Throttle Bodies on Honda engine?
 

keep in mind kiddies, no winter weather will bother this car because its only driven once or twice a week if that, its backed with a 150-200 shot of nitrous and most of its life is at the track. not worried bout drivability. just the fact if it helps power wize and if theres a benifit of actually doing this. they seem to be doing it here locally so i guess its better some how. i jus wanted to kno how... n who/what/how kinda info for me. i found out what kinda carbs they are... i guess i kinda have it figured out cuz i talked to a buddy fo mine earlier bout it. ill let u guys kno if i go through with it or not n what i end up goign with.. later.

Re: Individual Carburated Throttle Bodies on Honda engine?
 

are they like solex or weber carbs? if so they're a biotch to tune O0

Re: Individual Carburated Throttle Bodies on Honda engine?
 

http://sohchonda.com/ipw-web/gallery...simoto/3_G.jpg
http://sohchonda.com/ipw-web/gallery...imoto/13_G.jpg

Re: Individual Carburated Throttle Bodies on Honda engine?
 

Every last Honda made to date is carbureted.

I think you are confusing carbureted with carburetor.

Re: Individual Carburated Throttle Bodies on Honda engine?
 

looks awesome but also a waste on that small limited d

Re: Individual Carburated Throttle Bodies on Honda engine?
 

It's an F22 and it runs low low 10s in that chassis. He's gone 9s with that motor in an Insight and 10s with carbs on a D.

Hows 392hp and 281ft/lbs from an all motor single cam and not an ECU in the car?

Re: Individual Carburated Throttle Bodies on Honda engine?
 

pretty damn awesome if u ask me... which is why i wanna try this on straight LS or LS-V. the guy locally with his LS-V carburated + nitrous has a lil over 500whp if i remember. but i dunno if it was 500 with the nitrous or 500whp + the nitrous. ill ask him the next time i see him.

Re: Individual Carburated Throttle Bodies on Honda engine?
 

Weber carbs=old school import days. Your best bet is if you serious buy a weber sidedraft book there is a couple good ones check amazon. From last I know of weber no longer is in production of sidedfart carbs so if you find a set your lucky. Manifold building is next. I think pierce manifolds still has complete kits but dont quote me and the whole kit is around 1100 everything you need to convert. 45 mm is the satndard size for most street honda motors plannin on making good power.

Re: Individual Carburated Throttle Bodies on Honda engine?
 

First Dellorto, then Mikuni, and now Weber are discontinuing carbs?

Now, I love EFI lots + lots, but it's like the passing of an age.

Re: Individual Carburated Throttle Bodies on Honda engine?
 

Bisi runs webers because of the operational limits of the engine bay. There wasn't enough room to place the injectors far enough back to create proper fuel atomization. Carbs do a fine job of making power balls out, but ofcourse suck at making power throughout the whole rpm range. They are suited perfectly for drag racing.

And ofcourse if you don't run some sort of stand alone to control the timing then you can always get the D-series JDM 1 wire dizzy... ofcourse you loose all timing tuning abilities.

Re: Individual Carburated Throttle Bodies on Honda engine?
 

Pierce mani's told me awhile ago they stopped but another compnay was going to start production back up but I havent kept up with the news. I still have my set of 45's I may install in the all motor drag car kinda just to do it and be different.

Re: Individual Carburated Throttle Bodies on Honda engine?
 

thanks mr ingrish major, you know what I ment ::)

Re: Individual Carburated Throttle Bodies on Honda engine?
 

You need to run that one past me again, demonstrating how pouring gasoline at low pressure past an orifice versus spraying gasoline at high pressure acriss and orifice is going to have the low pressure setup have better atomization.

Bisi has some wierd ideas, some of which aren;t so wierd just so intensely technical they get wierded out when watered down for laymen. He's twice the engineer I could ever hope to be.

That wasn't Engrish. That was being intensely technical, with no regard for the laymen. :P

Re: Individual Carburated Throttle Bodies on Honda engine?
 

Its what he said in an interview. That there simply wasn't enough room to put the fuel injectors far enough back to get the fuel to properly atomize....