Honda Accord 2006 Prototype... FACTORY TURBO
01-20-2004, 02:25 PM
#33
1.0 BAR
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 255
Re:Honda Accord 2006 Prototype... FACTORY TURBO
While you guys are correct that the current market is ripe for turbo cars, carmakers can't exactly wake up one day and decide to go into production with a turbo version of one of their motors.
While we can go out and purchase a turbo, hack up some management and go for a spin, a carmaker has a long and expensive journey to do the same.
Their engineers need to spend time with the design, depending on the parts for replacement spent a lot of R&D as well as failure analysis to find the best tradeoff between longevity and cost.
Suppose they were turboing a D16. First they'd want to find a target output... suppose it's 180bhp.
They would need to replace ---- so they last. For example rods, pistons and clutch as a minimum. Then which turbo are they going to use? Find one that fits into their budget, design a manifold and downpipe.
Build a prototype or 10. Upgrade the fuel system, engine management and possibly the exhaust. Finally drop this new prototype powerplant into the car... Drop a few million on tuning and engine management to develop the proper engine management and emissions.
Also the car would probably need to have upgraded brakes and suspension - it's a package deal and the suspension & brakes have to be matched to the performance.
Once they've finally settled on all of the above then they've got to get it past the feds of each target market. Any real changes would require crash tests and fuel economy / emissions etc. This is very long and complicated as well as expensive - look at the fact it took mitsu like 2.5 years to get the evo to pass the tests...
The time to market for what seems to be a small change is large. The costs are huge. Then how assured are they that they can sell a pile? Will the demographic interested in the turbo cars be able to afford them
Once it goes to market will the market still be there? They'd be fighting already established players, Mazda, subaru, mitsubishi even dodge. All of whom have piles of past experience in production turbo engines.
While I think it would be cool I don't think it's realistic. I don't know that it affects us that much anyway since we're all into or dreaming of adding turbo to our existing rides.
-Michael
While we can go out and purchase a turbo, hack up some management and go for a spin, a carmaker has a long and expensive journey to do the same.
Their engineers need to spend time with the design, depending on the parts for replacement spent a lot of R&D as well as failure analysis to find the best tradeoff between longevity and cost.
Suppose they were turboing a D16. First they'd want to find a target output... suppose it's 180bhp.
They would need to replace ---- so they last. For example rods, pistons and clutch as a minimum. Then which turbo are they going to use? Find one that fits into their budget, design a manifold and downpipe.
Build a prototype or 10. Upgrade the fuel system, engine management and possibly the exhaust. Finally drop this new prototype powerplant into the car... Drop a few million on tuning and engine management to develop the proper engine management and emissions.
Also the car would probably need to have upgraded brakes and suspension - it's a package deal and the suspension & brakes have to be matched to the performance.
Once they've finally settled on all of the above then they've got to get it past the feds of each target market. Any real changes would require crash tests and fuel economy / emissions etc. This is very long and complicated as well as expensive - look at the fact it took mitsu like 2.5 years to get the evo to pass the tests...
The time to market for what seems to be a small change is large. The costs are huge. Then how assured are they that they can sell a pile? Will the demographic interested in the turbo cars be able to afford them
Once it goes to market will the market still be there? They'd be fighting already established players, Mazda, subaru, mitsubishi even dodge. All of whom have piles of past experience in production turbo engines.
While I think it would be cool I don't think it's realistic. I don't know that it affects us that much anyway since we're all into or dreaming of adding turbo to our existing rides.
-Michael
01-20-2004, 03:07 PM
#34
3.0 BAR
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 9,089
Re:Honda Accord 2006 Prototype... FACTORY TURBO
Honda Tuning did an article on the Accord Turbo Diesel in Nov '03.
2.2l, called the Euro Accord i-CDTi. 138hp @ 4,000rpm and 250ft-lb @ 2,000rpm.
NOT EVER for sale in North America.
and no, propane isn't like NOS. its the opposite. it adds fuel to the engine. You can n2o AND propane on a diesel. I saw a show called Trucks do that. a Duratec GMC Diesel was like. 180hp. he got it to 427 w/ propane and NOS.
2.2l, called the Euro Accord i-CDTi. 138hp @ 4,000rpm and 250ft-lb @ 2,000rpm.
NOT EVER for sale in North America.
and no, propane isn't like NOS. its the opposite. it adds fuel to the engine. You can n2o AND propane on a diesel. I saw a show called Trucks do that. a Duratec GMC Diesel was like. 180hp. he got it to 427 w/ propane and NOS.
01-20-2004, 03:32 PM
#35
3.0 BAR
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 3,703
Re:Honda Accord 2006 Prototype... FACTORY TURBO
Originally Posted by stretch-d
But I'm sure that a good portion of those people who are buying EVO's & WRX's would have bought a turbo Civic or RSX
01-20-2004, 03:35 PM
#36
3.0 BAR
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 8,155
Re:Honda Accord 2006 Prototype... FACTORY TURBO
thats all very true but everyone who has turbo their cars has gone through that. Mazda, mitsu, nissian all had to go through that process and they have succeed. It will take a long process because they have to make sure they do it right. I can wait 5 years or so to see a turbo honda im only 21. We just thought it would be cool thats all 
And it not like honda doesnt want to do it and im sure they probably have the funds to accomplish this with their numbers in sales
And it not like honda doesnt want to do it and im sure they probably have the funds to accomplish this with their numbers in sales
01-20-2004, 04:08 PM
#37
1.0 BAR
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 310
Re:Honda Accord 2006 Prototype... FACTORY TURBO
Hey Hackish, I'm sure Honda has all that figured out already.
Corporate business is like war...You plan for all situations.
Honda is very aware of how to build a turbo car within all the criteria that you've mentioned. One of Honda's biggest sales points is that they build low emission vehicles. The turbo vehicles that they sell overseas would most likely pass even California's laws.
...And crx88si...That's the show that I saw about the propane and Diesels. Thanks for the reply.
Corporate business is like war...You plan for all situations.
Honda is very aware of how to build a turbo car within all the criteria that you've mentioned. One of Honda's biggest sales points is that they build low emission vehicles. The turbo vehicles that they sell overseas would most likely pass even California's laws.
...And crx88si...That's the show that I saw about the propane and Diesels. Thanks for the reply.
01-20-2004, 06:42 PM
#39
1.0 BAR
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 310
Re:Honda Accord 2006 Prototype... FACTORY TURBO
Originally Posted by davcivic
Originally Posted by stretch-d
But I'm sure that a good portion of those people who are buying EVO's & WRX's would have bought a turbo Civic or RSX
