Tom-Guy

Unless you are approaching knock limit, pumpgas timing is more or less Torco 110 timing is more or less c16 timing. It's pretty fixed for iso-octane based fuels.

bigfig, I disagree with your argument regarding timing. I run stock cam D16 in the 300 whp range richer than anyone else I know, but I haven't lost any of them. Power actually comes up on them as you beat on the car, even though the coolant temps remain static; the real chamber temp can't be tuned for. Running 12:1 at 300-350 on a stock cam D16, or even mid 11's, yeah, you might get it to run better by backing off timing like you describe. But. I wouldn't do it that way.

The 305 whp @ 12 psi Z6 that CSaddict made the manifold for, I ran that at 12:1 and IIRC it was single digit timing. I'll post screenshots when I get home if anyone is curious.

Tom-Guy

Oh yah, my original point. E85 isn't iso-octane based since it is primarily alcohol. It needs more timing due to it's inherent nature. Never tuned E85, but I can provide E85 timing numbers from some of the finest tuners in the world. :P

b18.

I thought he had the block pinned?

Nvm.

I know old Saab guys that ring their open deck blocks. Non-Integrales were semiclosed.

hondacivc93

some camera phone pics i took this morning real quick. the only dyno graph i had is from my very last run where i started pushing coolant and only went 313 hp.
i know the pictures suck but if it helps the rpms stop at 8k and starts at 3K and the hp stops at 320 on the graph.

if i can find a decent wireless connection ill put the video up from my dyno run

johntsi

sweet

Tom-Guy

I can't make out the rpm scalars at the bottom of the chart. Can you mspaint some glory on there for me?

I get the feeling the setup is choking on the cam, and you need to retard it to project more power up top. Here's vtecduck from D-series.org's stock cam stock sleeve Z6, before and after I degreed his engine (which involved retarding the cam 3 degrees).

With the cam gear centered:


With the cam degreed aka "retarded" 3 degrees according to the cam gear:


Notice how the first dyno graph looks like wrinkled dogshit at peak power. It keeps climbing... kind of... past 5500. The wobble in the peak area of the graph is because the engine is strangling itself. With the cam in a happy place the power sails up past 5500. Both were wastegate boost, but with the cam retarded the setup pulled an extra 1/2 to full psi to net 242@12.

Uhm, also? E85 is claimed to only use 30-40% more fuel than gasoline but that's at a cruise. At WOT it's closer to 75% more fuel. That's a lot of liquid to be injecting into the engine, especially since the stuff is supposed to be safe to run closer to stoich than iso-octane gasolines. I can't quite make out your AFR plot's values, either, but it looks like she's richer than 12:1 and I would probably try to fiddle that somewhat and see how the engine likes it.

hondacivc93

i think those are the values i cant really remember.

Tom-Guy

Was there a boost spike at 5700 to cause that hump, or...? Because if boost was pretty steady I'm inclined to recommend you play with the cam when you get around to your next tune session.

hondacivc93

nope no boost spike, the dark green line that ramps slowly up is my boost pressure. i dont see 18psi till 7k

Tom-Guy

Yeah, there's something wierd going on there when you made near peak whp at a low-*** 5700 rpms when you were nowhere near peak boost.

Notice how the torque (power) dips as AFRs dip down. I'd hate to use something as volatile as a big power D16 as a test pig, but leaning her out and checking plugs/piston surfaces after every pull would let you know what indicated AFR your setup on E85 actually wants.