to B, or not to B? that is the question
 

i am about to assemble a vitara TT block and i have a very large turbo that i plan to mount on it. i would love to see between 400-450 whp, which i dont think will be all that difficult, since the turbo i have is capable of so much more. i am trying to decide to sleeve a z6 or go the B series route. there are so many 400whp single cams out there now that i feel that i will need to go bigger very soon. i have an LS that has been sitting in my garage for over a year but i cant bring myself to put it in my car. everyone and their brother does that. would a 500whp z6 be more amazing than a 600hp ls? no matter the direction, the next block will be sleeved, revving to the moon, and breaking axles quicker than noobs get flamed. if it was purely for myself, it would be a sleeved D, but a shop is in the works and i need to show my abilities. i have changed lots of things on my car due to this but i just dont know if i can let go of the little D. thanks for reading my bullshit rambling and hopefully some of you can give me some insight and help me in making the decision that i really want. cause in the end i have to be happy, its my car.

Re: to B, or not to B? that is the question
 

it dosent hurt to run a nice b every once in a while, sepecially if its just an ls. your good in my book as long as its not an h22, k series, or bsuxteen

Re: to B, or not to B? that is the question
 

honestly, i think a high horsepower, badass d would better show your skills. Like you were saying, everyone and their mother has a b-swap, and it will take more work and expertise to get impressive power out of the d than it will the b, so to showcase your sKiLlz and have a fun car, stick with the d. Then again, b builds give me boners, so to each his own I suppose? Agree to disagree?

Re: to B, or not to B? that is the question
 

how hard could it be to get as much power out of a d?

to get high horsepower out of any honda engine you still have to do a bit of work... except maybe f22 but... w/e

Re: to B, or not to B? that is the question
 

the H and K have never even crossed my mind. the b16 almost has cause of its high revving abilities, but its not hard to build an LS to rev to 9k so i might as well have mroe torque. maybe i need a shop car and my own personal car. that may be the only way to settle this within myself

not to bash you, but i think everyone else will think the same thing and that is what is making me consider the B.

Re: to B, or not to B? that is the question
 

I say stick with the D. nothing like a single slammer kicking out 500 ponies. Are you just gonna run a stock tranny or atleast toss in a LSD to get the most out of all that power?

Re: to B, or not to B? that is the question
 

it will get an LSD for sure, then see what breaks. any D2B kits out there yet? lol

Re: to B, or not to B? that is the question
 

I say stick with the D, but if you are starting a shop and you want to show your skills for the future...concentrate on a K setup...thats the future.

Re: to B, or not to B? that is the question
 

Re: to B, or not to B? that is the question
 

Is that what you call a Ninja Edit?

Re: to B, or not to B? that is the question
 

haha

Re: to B, or not to B? that is the question
 

D-series blow for making much over 400whp. Between the ---- head, the ---- transmission selections, and overall lack of bore they really become super inefficient after 400whp typically. You can get power out of them, but at the same cost you can get 600-700whp out of a B-series. Honestly, when I look at performance shops, I want them to know the most efficient way to make power, not the most difficult way. It's more impressive having a fast car that runs than the typical high hp D-series that ends up self destructing a few weeks later due to constant over heating.

My suggestions:

1) Build the Z6 with the TT rods and Vitara pistons. Shoot for 400whp. To make the setup suck less, spend some money getting a new cam and valve train for a Z6 head. Get the car to run mid 10s. Don't pick a stupid large turbo. D-series transmissions blow and super large turbos on them really make you significantly slower. A HX35 or T3/t04e 50-60 trim is what you want. A car like this is going to attract your average Honda owner. This means stupid 16-25 year olds. I wouldn't want to deal with them on a daily basis, but maybe you enjoy that. Either way, you won't make a ton of money off these people but you should get pretty steady business which counts in a field where most people fail.

2) http://www.superlitecars.com/roadster_spec.html

You will catch SOOOO much attention with one of these that you won't be able to keep people out of your shop. All said and done that package is about the same amount as buying a Civic, doing body work, adding suspension parts, and all of that other BS. Throw a simple ls/vtec in there with a basic turbo kit and you will be damn quick. It won't even matter because people will think it is an Atom and automatically flock to the damn car.

Re: to B, or not to B? that is the question
 

thanks for all of the "real" input everyone. the atom replica is cheap. i am surprized. i am starting to think no matter what engine i use, the higher the power the more impressive. i really like to go for lots of power, but with drivability. what good is a ton of power if you never want to drive it and couldnt get traction to save your life.


and chris, i know what you are saying, but i will never own a K. i will put one in for someone, but not my own. well, if we run out of D and B engines then i guess i will have no choice, but dart is helping in keeping the B

Re: to B, or not to B? that is the question
 

make 400whp on an a20. or make a b-series awd civic. punch a tprc in the nutsack

Re: to B, or not to B? that is the question
 

FAKLAD.


People don't need abilities to sell ching chong parts, they just need friends at the ports. >:D

I had the same feelings about my car with a 500hp B series in 2019. That's what made me do the rhd thing. I've learned to just stick to the original plan. In your case it would be the D series.

Re: to B, or not to B? that is the question
 

Although it sucks, you're going to have to try really hard to do something so different in the Honda world that people will take notice.

Chris is right, K is the new trend and that's where the money is if you're trying to start a business and the market in your area follows the current H-T trends.

Worry less about whatever project is going to show off your skills as a super Honda builder because it's so unique. Concentrate on having a fast, cost effective setup that you could build easily for anyone. You can build unique projects with other people's money, but if it was me, I would be building a solid 10 sec car, learning as much as I could and start buying nice tools.

If you have a nice working environment (ie not a cave), decent tools, decent customer service skills and are a decent wrench/fab guy, the fast car is just icing on the cake.

Re: to B, or not to B? that is the question
 

If you're trying to make money, I would suggest a muffler shop over a tunorboi shop.

Re: to B, or not to B? that is the question
 

Are you still going to try and use vitara's if you sleep your block?

Re: to B, or not to B? that is the question
 

If you want to do something different, build a totally stock block f-series turbo monster and put it in a hatch or crx or something light. You won't have BDVT's tranny problems because of the lightness, and lesser power. But seriously, f's torque seems to follow its hp. How much fun would a crx be 300hp and 300ftlbs of torque? Throw on an h22 head and go for more.

Re: to B, or not to B? that is the question
 

i do a lot more than sell ching chong parts away from here. there are plenty of people selling the big name brand stuff here so i stay away from it.

as for nice tools, i have mostly mac and matco with big shiny tool boxes. im not worried about tool image

i have no intentions of running vitaras in a sleeved block, but it might be fun to see just how much the vitaras can handle. i know they can handle more than the stock sleeves. hmmm..... now i am thinking

sure i am trying to make money, but i also want to do what i love and thats build fast cars

acctually, someone asked me about doing an F swap into an eg hatch the other day. if i do that maybe he will tell people

Re: to B, or not to B? that is the question
 

i say build the LS. i think you'll like the higher torque figures, but who knows, to each his own, ya know

Re: to B, or not to B? that is the question
 

yea, i think the torque would be nice, but with everyone saying to stick with my gut i am going to sleeve a z6 and see what i can get out of it. gonna do some cam research and head porting research also.

i figure most cars in my area arent running on built engines so it wont be hard to have the fastest honda around even on the d. that should get me the respect i need. then all of the B builds will come with someone else's money

sorry for the previous blabbering post, it was early and i was in a hurry to get out of the house for the day job