Anyone here experienced with working on GrandAms?
 

My wife's '93 Grand Am's SE (3.3L V6) latest problem is that it won't start intermittantly. Initially it seemed tempurature relaated, IE if it was hot and she drove it enough to get the engine to temp, let it sit 30 minutes or so, it wouldn't start, let it sit an hour and then it would. We had it "fixed" a couple times already, last time the ignition control module was replaced ($$$), it did better for a while, just long enough for there to be no warranty (6 months). Not its worse than ever, it won't start if its even slightly warm and hasn't been started for weeks, may not be temp related at all now, because I can try 15 minutes later and it runs fine.
I hooked a timing light to it, no spark on any wire. This car has the distributorless system, with 3 coils each firing a pair of cylinders. There are no codes in the ECU.

Any ideas, any tests I can do? I'm sick of spending money on this junk and want to fix it myself. As soon as it hit 75K, it started falling apart.

Re: Anyone here experienced with working on GrandAms?
 

I would try the coil packs... Ive got an old shitter Z24 with a 2.8... it was doing the same thing and that was the fix

Re: Anyone here experienced with working on GrandAms?
 

probably the coils or the crank posistion sensor or something. those 3100's are ------- pieces of ----.

Re: Anyone here experienced with working on GrandAms?
 

rawr is right Is say its the crank position sensor.
back last years my now late uncles grand am was acting the same way. I replaced both coil packs and the module and it turned out to be a $18 dollar crank sensor.
And with the problem being intermittant that realy points to a failing sensor as their going bad they only act up every so often and then steadily get worse until they don't work at all.

and the big tell is you have no spark at all the crank sensor tells the module when to fire if it's bad you get no spark period if it was on coil you would have two dead cylinders and the others would fire. and I would think a bad module would give you a cel

Re: Anyone here experienced with working on GrandAms?
 

I never knew people fixed those. I just thought when they broke people just junk them since I see so many of them at the junkyard.

Re: Anyone here experienced with working on GrandAms?
 

This ones a 3300, but yeah...

Thanks for the replies, I'll try the crank sensor first.
I would love to see this thing in the junk yard, but my wife likes it for some reason, and we can't afford a new car at the moment.

Re: Anyone here experienced with working on GrandAms?
 

i didnt think they put 33's in anything but gt's. My first car was a 94 grandam se and it was a 3100 :)

Re: Anyone here experienced with working on GrandAms?
 

Right off the bat when I started going out with my wife and she got her license I told never to buy a grand am or any pontiac and she asked why. I said just go to any dealership and she the resale value on them or look at the majority of cars on the side of the road. Well atleast in my neck of the woods. Her first car she bought was a corolla and then a mazda and now the Focus. She did her research first on what years not to buy for them and just bought a brand new one back in 03. Little small things like leaky window seal and non mechanics things that were recalls were the only problems she had but nothing were the car ever broke down. I have to say as much as I hate american cars it's been a good buy on the reliability of it. If she would ever buy a pontiac or chevy or dodge or anything I'd divorce her and she said she'd kill herself first before I got a chance if she had to get any of those. lol. I trained her well. 8) Oh and she cooks good too.

Re: Anyone here experienced with working on GrandAms?
 

3300 is the baby 3800. Most likely the crank ar amshaft position sensor. ;D

Canned Hams suck. I used to work at a GM dealership. Everytime I saw one that was more than 3-4 years old it was a pile of ----. A little tip for ya. If that thing hasen't had the timing chain replaced and it has more than 100K on it then it's a ticking time bomb. I am not sure if the later 3300 has a Nylon cam gear or not, but if they do then it is more than likely tready to shred the teeth off.

Re: Anyone here experienced with working on GrandAms?
 

Its at about 90k now. Great, I guess that will be the next repair I have to do. I hate working on that car. People complaint about Hondas being hard to work on because they're so compact, but everything I've tried to do on this has been twice as hard. Just changing the spark plugs was an ordeal.

She bought this car new long before I met her (or I would have talked her out of it), I think the only problem she had under warranty was the transmission went out. Then it hit 75k and became a money pit. Started leaking tranny fluid, thermostat went bad, window crank stripped, power lock lever sticks, have to fix the AC twice, had a gas leak (injector? can't remember now), lock up solinoid went bad, water pump, motor mount, this is the 3rd round of the no-start problem...
Every time it breaks we have the same conversation... Its cheaper to fix this one problem for $200-300 than to buy another car, but I say thats true until the next thing breaks... But we always do wind up fixing it. When something major goes bad (IE, have to replace motor, tranny, etc) I will refuse to fix it.

Re: Anyone here experienced with working on GrandAms?
 

Sounds to me like you need to take her out test driving cars with you. don't tell her it's for her find something she likes and make her think it was her idea all along.

Re: Anyone here experienced with working on GrandAms?
 

That's how these cars are from those years. lol

My mom's Lumina and my aunt's Grand Prix both started breaking down from 75-90k. Just random stupid crap started going :3 then my mom got a pimpin grand caravan with a 3.8 and my aunt got a dodge ram, no more problems for either of them :y

Re: Anyone here experienced with working on GrandAms?
 

I ended up throwing about 3000 dollars in my grand am because when i was younger my mom wouldn't let me get a new car because "If you just fix this one it will be fine" it was at around 120k when it bit the dust for good. It would have been an alright car of the engine wasn't junk. I had that motor mount problem too. and i was 90 miles away from home when the mount broke. :-\

Re: Anyone here experienced with working on GrandAms?
 

thats some GM ---- for you. my coil packs are goin bad too, just replace the cam sensor and it still sets a code 41 so the coil packs are probalby causing this also when im at a dead stop and i nail the gas sometime the car will just die instantly. my olds has a 3800 with like 210k and still runs strong as hell!

Re: Anyone here experienced with working on GrandAms?
 

the 3.8's seem to be pretty solid. My buddy skip had a buick with the 3800 and my pap has the 3800 with no problems whatsoever.

Re: Anyone here experienced with working on GrandAms?
 

the 3.8's are solid. and for a strange reason they get better gas mileage too.

Re: Anyone here experienced with working on GrandAms?
 

My pap is retarded with how much MPG he gets in his LeSabre, using A/C going from here to Mansfield Ohio (173 miles), going there and coming back he was still on that one tank and by the time he was done he got 32 mpg. I can't even get 32 mpg with my 1.6 Sentra >:(

Re: Anyone here experienced with working on GrandAms?
 

The 3800 is probably GM's best engine. :y It's definitely the only V6 that they have made that is worth a ----. The 4.3 is okay, but it's just a small block chey with 2 cylinders lopped off and a different crank.

Re: Anyone here experienced with working on GrandAms?
 

my moms 3100 century probably gets about 18, lol.

Re: Anyone here experienced with working on GrandAms?
 

my gas milegage is ok im not really sure what avg. this is my first domestic car(v6) i get like 220 from a full tank. i just charged the a/c a few days ago and converted to R134 i must say this bitch is like a freezer inside! i never had a/c on any of my dd's so you'll have to excuse me lol

Re: Anyone here experienced with working on GrandAms?
 

Right now I have a 94 grandam with a 2.2 . when your done with your engine troubles keep an eye on your power steering rack. thats next they leak like sifts. so far I'm milking mine with some PREVENT LEAK miracle stuff from Autozone they give you double back your money if it doesn't work. Pontiacs are full of good news. But no payments and it gets me where i need to go

Re: Anyone here experienced with working on GrandAms?
 

the rack didn't break on mine but a hose poped.

Re: Anyone here experienced with working on GrandAms?
 

quad fours are the shittiest engines on the face of the earth. ever done a valve cover gasket on one? :3 the racks are ---- too like you said.

Re: Anyone here experienced with working on GrandAms?
 

is it a quad four? I thought those were earlier. plus this one doesn't look like it. then again the last time I knew I was looking at one was 15 years ago. either way its okay for now but it will probably never see any HMT duty. (just transportation)

Re: Anyone here experienced with working on GrandAms?
 

What a pain... I have to take off the tire and fender liner to remove the crank pulley to get to the sensor. I can't get the serpintine tensioner loose because it has like 3" between the motor mount and shock tower to move the ratchet and only about 1" between the bolt head and the motor mount so I can't use a bigger tool, can't get the crank pully bolt loose because of being up in the wheel well, once I do I won't be able to get the pulley off without a puller that I don't have... Now I remember why I don't want to work on this car. >:(

Re: Anyone here experienced with working on GrandAms?
 

Sell it :y

Re: Anyone here experienced with working on GrandAms?
 

Bwahahahahahahaaaahaahahahhaaaa. ;D

Sorry man I had to do it. Been there and done that. Having the right tools makes it eaisier. You can get a serpentine belt tool at sears or most auto parts stores for like 20 buck to get on that tensioner. The later ones with a 3100 are fun too. You have to take the passenger side engine mount out just to change the serp belt.

If you are just doing the crank sensor for now then I don't think you have to remove the crank pulley to get it out. Take out the 2 bolts that hold that aluminum crank sensor bracket out, not the long onthat goes up and down . The new sensor will prabably come with a new bracket. Then it should swing away from the pulley and the block.

Best of luck.

Bwaahahahahhahahaahahahahahhhaahaahaaa.

Re: Anyone here experienced with working on GrandAms?
 

I actually didn't know there was a tool for the belt tensioner. I guess I shouldn't complain anyway... thinking back I had enough problems getting stuff of my CRX too. (Shift linkage pin, bolt for the rear control arms, flywheel pulley bolt on my B16...)

Re: Anyone here experienced with working on GrandAms?
 

Ok, so I figured out the tensioner wasn't as hard as I thought, you just have to put pressure on it with a wrench and it releases the tension so the belt will slide off... Finally got the crank pulley bolt off (impact wrench wouldn't touch it, so I bought two 10" extensions and used my trusty PVC plastic pipe over the ratchet, I'm amazed the pipe doesn't break, I was putting about all my weight on it)...
Now I can't get the pulley itself off. Borrowed a harmonic balancer puller from Advance, but it won't work, there's nothing to hook it to, or to screw it to if I used the other part.

Any suggestions on how to get this thing off? I've hosed it down with penetrating oil, tapped it with a hammer, pried on it from behind, put the bolt back in most of the way and rapped it with a hammer while prying the pulley (someone I know suggested that), but it won't break loose...

Re: Anyone here experienced with working on GrandAms?
 

There is a special puller for that style GM and some Chryslers. It has three claws that grab onto the backside through the big holes in the damper.

http://www.etoolcart.com/ProductImages/otc/OTC-6267.jpg

Here is a link to the tool. http://www.etoolcart.com/index.asp?P...OD&ProdID=6744

Re: Anyone here experienced with working on GrandAms?
 

Thats about the same as the puller I had, but the pulley only has three little slits and those fat hooks won't go in, unless I'm stupid and don't know how.

Re: Anyone here experienced with working on GrandAms?
 

Got a pic? Its been awhile since I worked on one.

Re: Anyone here experienced with working on GrandAms?
 

Just skimmed through again. I found the Kent Moore, dealer tools, tool for the 3800 and 3300. It looks like you can use a standard bolt style puller.

http://www.etoolcart.com/ProductImag...-38197-A-L.gif

http://www.etoolcart.com/index.asp?P...ROD&ProdID=299

Fcuk paying that much for that tool though.

Re: Anyone here experienced with working on GrandAms?
 

Seriously... That tool is more than I'd pay for the car...
Thanks for the info though.

Re: Anyone here experienced with working on GrandAms?
 

Re: Anyone here experienced with working on GrandAms?
 

Damn! Well I don't remeber it looking quite like that. You try a 3 jaw puller to get it poped loose.

Re: Anyone here experienced with working on GrandAms?
 

go to murrys or autozone.. they have a free tool loan program..