Whats the best way to find out if turbo whine is due to balance?
 

I swapped compressor wheels out using a pre-balanced compressor wheel. I'm trying to figure out if the increased turbo whine is due to the fact I'm running a bigger trim or if its out of balance.

Re: Whats the best way to find out if turbo whine is due to balance?
 

Whine is caused by airflow dynamics, both on the compressor and turbine sides of things, but predominantly the intake tract.

Imbalance leads to worn bearings--> scraping against housings, leaky oil smoking turbos, and exploded wheels. Not whining.

Re: Whats the best way to find out if turbo whine is due to balance?
 

I'm going to guess a wheels scrapeing from an balance stack. Basicly from the wheels being balanced seperatly, but not indexed together so the assembly is out of balance.

Re: Whats the best way to find out if turbo whine is due to balance?
 

:3

Re: Whats the best way to find out if turbo whine is due to balance?
 

I'm with Wheezer.

:3

Re: Whats the best way to find out if turbo whine is due to balance?
 

The wheel isn't scraping. However I do know that an imbalanced compressor and turbine assembly does create more whine because it wobbles. This wobbling creates instability in the air flow which results in more whine.

Re: Whats the best way to find out if turbo whine is due to balance?
 

You don't know ----, dildo monkey. :3

Re: Whats the best way to find out if turbo whine is due to balance?
 

" With the increasing popularity of small turbos in automotive applications, stackup unbalance has become more of a factor. Due to the light mass and high rotational speeds of these small units, simply balancing the components to an overly close tolerance may not be enough. The typical symptoms of a slightly unbalanced small turbo are oil leakage from the ends of the bearing housing, and “screaming,” an unbalance induced vibration of the rotating assembly. The fastest, most effective method of eliminating the stackup unbalance that causes these problems is to trim balance the moving parts of the assembled turbo CHRA (center housing rotating assembly)."

http://www.---------------.com/old/letter.htm

Apparently I know more than you ... Ass clown :1

Go read some articles on surge and what can induce it.

Re: Whats the best way to find out if turbo whine is due to balance?
 

So your asking questions on here why.... ???

Re: Whats the best way to find out if turbo whine is due to balance?
 

To get advice from people smarter than him

Re: Whats the best way to find out if turbo whine is due to balance?
 

Yeah, I've tuned a couple SSAC turbos. Screaming != whistle.


Doubtful. I've tuned a couple hundred turbo cars, whereas you're asking basic questions.

Surge != imbalance.

I thought you claimed to know more than I do? ::)

Re: Whats the best way to find out if turbo whine is due to balance?
 

Oh my the SCCA!! you mean you have worked on a car that someone autocrossed? Wow we all shudder at your greatness. LMAO!!!!

The only reason that I'm asking is my whine, whistle or screaming is more than twice as loud as it was. Seeing as its in the middle of winter with temps of 18 degrees F and I'm about 300 feet ASL I don't think its due to going from a T3 45 trim wheel to a 50 Trim wheel. I'm well to the right of the surge line on the map.

Surge can be induced by anything that disrupts the smooth flow of air in through the compressor, be it turbulent air flow at the intake, or a vibration of the compressor.

Re: Whats the best way to find out if turbo whine is due to balance?
 

You have no idea what an SSAC turbo is, yet you've gone from asking n00b questions to master of all things turbocharged in a matter of days?

You are a silly, silly creature, and I pity your mother for getting drunk enough to let her brother ---- her and produce your ignorance :3

Re: Whats the best way to find out if turbo whine is due to balance?
 

What the ---- kind of turbo are you talking about???

Im not 100% sure but I think that your only supposed to use a compressor wheel that has been balanced separate, with a turbine/shaft that has also been balanced separate.

SSAC=SS Auto Chrome

JD is ------- with you because you are a douche. :6

This is HMT, better come with your flame suit on.

Re: Whats the best way to find out if turbo whine is due to balance?
 

Lets just cut throught the bullshit for a second, then you all may resume.

When you upgraded to the larger wheel, did you also upgrade to the proper housing machined to fit the 50 trim wheel? The 50 is marginally larger (0.079"), but in a 45 trim housing it will probably scrape just enough. If nothing else, its probably just close enough to the housing to produce a different version of JD's intake noises. I'm no expert in aerodynamics, but a fan's shroud has to have a certain clearance, which in this case, it is now lacking if its a 50 trim in a 45 trim housing.

And FYI, there is a form of screaming that *is* caused by imbalance, due to harmonics & it vibrating the turbo to hell. You can't tell me a turbo's airflow characteristics is what causes the whine, as the airflow doesn't change over time. Fucked up harmonics and resonation from a wobbling shaft will though. The whistle JD is thinking about is the from all the GT35's and GT42's he deals with in all those baller cars, ones that don't use the silencer cone. He probably just gets asked that a lot, as most of his customers probably just have him to all the work and ask stupid questions. No doubt they're puzzled about the [whistling] noises because they went from a loud NA setup they knew nothing about to a turbo setup they know nothing about.

I know JD will try to pwn me, thinking this is just some bullshit from an upstart n00b, so lemme introduce the harmonic dampener. A wonderful device on the nose of a Honda's crankshaft. Known to absorb/prevent oil pump-shattering harmonics from slight misbalance (among other thigns). Of course you can't hear the vibrations, as they're well masked by occational internal combustion, scraping rings, valves slapping shut, and the fact a crankshaft rotates *once* for every *twenty* times that little turbo spins around.

Re: Whats the best way to find out if turbo whine is due to balance?
 

Holy ----, you do have a brain in your head.

The two SSAC turbos that came apart on me within 25 miles, and one that lasted a whole 275, ended up making a gravel/screech sound when spooling, before the bearings got slopped enough to acheive turbine-housing contact. Two of them were removed mid-tune to inspect. It most certainly is not whine/whistle.

HX35 (with silencer ring removed) and .60/.63 are louder, but again that's only some of them. Both intake and exhaust dynamics dictate if the turbo makes that screaming sound, and a turbo will sound different on two different cars if the manifold/etc has been changed.

Re: Whats the best way to find out if turbo whine is due to balance?
 

JD there's that eirie howl sound big turbos make, then theres a weird scream quality, but worn out, turbos make. I'd bet the guys at the volvo/saab/chrapler garages would be able to better explain it. The one you hear all the time is from a pimp-ass monster turbo. The smaller ones I'm used to don't scream unless they're fucked. This sound you can hear through an intake tube, through a filter. Ordinarily, you just hear a whooshing/sucking sound.

I'm suprised you even hear sounds from those ssauto turbos. Usually they leak well before hand, giving the grinding surfaces just enough lube to stay quiet. Has anyone ever tried balancing one of those turbos that you know if? For a few bucks you could probably add garrett parts to give it a half-decent lifespan, assuming the chra brearings you replace don't have misaligned seats. Or that the shaft isn't out of round. Just a passing thought... :1

Re: Whats the best way to find out if turbo whine is due to balance?
 

I tune three to four HMT-level cars for every baller car, I've seen plenty of OEM T3. Sometimes there's a little noise when there is turbine-housing contact, but usually not. I pulled a nicely trashed .50/.48 off my CRX that had been passing oil... and flakes of turbine wheel ground off against the housing. No appreciable noise.

The .60/.63 on my CRX screamed for the year it was on there, before it started passing oil, and it never made turbine-housing contact. It had the Ford bolt-on angled compressor entry and I used the stock black plastic flexy-hose to PVC routed to a remote airfilter in the bumper, car screamed like a Mack truck. Hitchhikkr remembers the car, and can attest to the fact it was loud.

The only SSAC I've sent off to BLAAST for rebuild was a T61, which is a wierd K26/K27 clone using a chinese made Garrett clone of a P-trim turbine on a T3 shaft, I have zero clue what the compressor wheel was copied from because it resembles nothing in Garrett land, and the bearings are made out of whole cloth. I understand the T04E/T3 clones are based on Garrett parts and have a good track record for rebuild, but *shrug* I've zero experience.

Re: Whats the best way to find out if turbo whine is due to balance?
 

Yes, I upgraded the housing too. Of course now that you mention it the compressor housing gasket seemed thicker than the one I pulled off. I figured that it was due to being mashed for 20 years. A thicker gasket could space the housing enough away from the wheel to cause the noise. I'll pull it a part this weekend and take a measurement. BTW A 50 trim wheel won't fit in a 45 trim housing. Thanks :)

This is a new install less than a week old and the much louder whine was there from when it first fired up. I figured it was just surge when we were free revving the engine because the stock compressor wheel did it to some extent until it was under load. Once I got it on the road and it didn't go away I knew it was a problem. The noise is definitely aero.

Re: Whats the best way to find out if turbo whine is due to balance?
 

My faux pah, I guess my mind couldn't imagine that someone would actually boast about working with a SSAC turbo so it read it as SCCA.

I guess your just to stupid to realize I was the master all along.

Now go ---- your mom some more and tell her a real man might stop by some day.

Re: Whats the best way to find out if turbo whine is due to balance?
 

Now dont get me wrong, I dont usually jump into bullshit like this, but I think I should this time.

JD can defend himself, but I know hes not all about bragging.
You should know that the last ssac turbo car Joseph tuned put down about 406hp. Not bad for a $200 turbo.

Just because you "rebuilt" a turbo (a fairly easy one I might add) doesnt mean you know everything. The capability to use a micrometer is also as such.

If you do know something about engines, turbos, cars, etc. then show us.

This is not the place to come asking questions and then attack ppl who give you an answer, you cant always be right. This isnt honda-tech.

Re: Whats the best way to find out if turbo whine is due to balance?
 

You were talking about whine/whistle caused by unbalanced ----, SSAC turbos are exactly that. If you have zero experience and don't understand the forces involved here you'e best off taking my advice and not glossing over valid technical points with logical red herring personal attacks. Besides, you aren't very good at it. :1

Re: Whats the best way to find out if turbo whine is due to balance?
 

JD> ad hominym arguement in regard to responses to your problem

Re: Whats the best way to find out if turbo whine is due to balance?
 

I was polite and respectful to those who were actually of some help. JD was just an ass hole and an ignorant one at that. Besides JD started this ---- and if he can't take it he should join one of those hybrid prius forums with the rest of the emotionally sensitive fags.

"Turbochargers are now commonly used in passenger cars especially in application with diesel engines because of their numerous advantages. The use of this machine greatly improves engine performance, while at the same time allowing pollutant emissions to be reduced. However, one of the important issues to take into account when a turbocharger is used in passenger cars is the whistling noise due to unbalanced forces that can be perceived by the driver, which causes discomfort. The manufacturer's efforts to reduce the whistling noise are centred on reducing the unbalanced forces by a correct balance of rotating parts. However, improving the balance means increasing the manufacturing cost as this process is very expensive. Selecting the maximum unbalance admissible is a key activity during the development of a new application. In this paper, a procedure to control the turbocharger whistling noise vs. unbalanced forces variation has been suggested in order to maintain the acoustic comfort of the vehicle."

http://inderscience.metapress.com/li...trw5arm7m0j3tp


HiProfile was actually some help.

I disassembled my housing and checked the thickness of the gasket. It was 25 mils thick after being compressed. A second gasket I bought was only 15 mils thick uncompressed. It turns out the first gasket I used was actually two stuck together.

The whine has dropped quite a bit with the new gasket. It is still louder than the original wheel but I will chalk that up to imbalance.

With the new gasket boost comes on sooner and is higher at cruise.