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Re:Water Injection - THE FACTS!
pinging is easy to hear. Just put up your windows, radio off, etc... and put it in 3rd gear or so, and push it down (starting at 2000rpm) up to redline. It sounds like "marbles in a can being shaked"... It's not LOUD, but you can hear it if you're ears are tuned in... and if you can't, then you should be glad. There's nothing I hate more than hearing that sound.
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Re:Water Injection - THE FACTS!
Originally Posted by MR_DR_PEP
I've got to do something quick though... I've got my distributor turned fully clockwise, retarding the timing 1.0 degree PER psi, and it's intercooled, and it pings at 5 psi... what the heck. It pings worst at night time when the temps are down a little bit... This is crazy. my 180k mile d16a6 is a strong puppy, but I think she's got some carbon build up.. Water injection is getting closer and closer. Still mounting a container.. actually thinking of doing this up front instead of the trunk.
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Re:Water Injection - THE FACTS!
OK Chacko, do you honsetly think that the turbo is actually going to rust, when it is constantly spining and pushing air, just a thought from me to you, think about it....
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Re:Water Injection - THE FACTS!
Originally Posted by THRESHOLD
OK Chacko, do you honsetly think that the turbo is actually going to rust, when it is constantly spining and pushing air, just a thought from me to you, think about it....
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Re:Water Injection - THE FACTS!
I've eliminated the pinging, and I'm on the street at 7 psi now. I've bumped up the injectors a little (ghettodyne of course :) )
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Re:Water Injection - THE FACTS!
Just got my misting nozzle in from aquamist and thought everyone might want to see what they look like.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/...4253.jpg.thumb I dont know if this picture shows how small this ---- is but it is small as hell. Just for reference it is about the lenqth of a quarter. My water injection will be up within the week, I'll post how everything goes soon! |
Re:Water Injection - THE FACTS!
imagestation piece of ----!!
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/...3/fc1b4253.jpg |
Re:Water Injection - THE FACTS!
if it helps to understand how small this is, the hole in the middle is only .5mm big. Thats just a close up. its about as thick as a pencil and about 1 inch long.
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Re:Water Injection - THE FACTS!
That's smaller than a 55shot jet for nitrous, which is .60ish mm... My water/alcoy injection uses a nitrous fogger type deal.
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Re:Water Injection - THE FACTS!
JD, keep us informed on this.. I'm almost lazy do this whole thing and haven't got much done with it yet. I want to have a complete working system before July.
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Re:Water Injection - THE FACTS!
found a parts list for it and ill be posting it soon again;)
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Re:Water Injection - THE FACTS!
Where did this thread come from?
Sticky this one for a while. __________________ Best Car Insurance | Auto Protection Today | FREE Trade-In Quote |
Re:Water Injection - THE FACTS!
lol its been here for a while;)
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Re:Water Injection - THE FACTS!
Does anybody know of any other alcohols that burn like methanol?
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Re:Water Injection - THE FACTS!
dethenol alchol and tolene 50/50 mix with water and carb cleaner
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Re:Water Injection - THE FACTS!
mmmm........and to think i can do a 3.8 buick swap in my fiero
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Re:Water Injection - THE FACTS!
I am going to start experimenting with the burns for methanol. Toulene can be purchased at paint stores right?
I want to really see which explodes more 'controllably', or rather with less rage behind the explosion. I am finding that mixing more methanol then water will actually make the engine run a bit smoother and quieter. If you run nothing but water, the engine bogs a little, and it doesn't seem to have a lasting cooling effect. I haven't risked trying it with pure methanol, as I think its to flamable by itself. Hopefully I'll be able to test enough to see what chemicals might be mixed the best. My other questions then are, how acidic or basic is toulene? |
Re:Water Injection - THE FACTS!
Couldn't you use some kind of 2 gallon resivoir so you don't have to refill as often? How long does the fluid in your current resivoir last you? Also, what kind of gains would this have if you DO NOT advance timing?
Anyone else got pics of their setups? |
Re:Water Injection - THE FACTS!
In the meantime, I just rigged up an intercooler spray system that sprays ice cold water all over the intercooler only when I flip on a switch. It's only good for using on the dragstrip where I can play with it and dump in ice and cold water.. The whole deal cost be $24 bucks... a water res. (1 quart)..., water pump, hoses and nozzles... it really does work, and allows me to bump up the boost and it seems to cut out detonation. I need to tinker with the nozzles some to get it to work to it's best though... I did it just for fun, and it took about 1 hour. When I get it cleaned up, I'll take some pics ... lol
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Re:Water Injection - THE FACTS!
Why not just use your windshield squirters and put a 90 degree angle sprayer on the end.(whole setup cost me 79 cents :) )
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Re:Water Injection - THE FACTS!
Originally Posted by MR_DR_PEP
In the meantime, I just rigged up an intercooler spray system that sprays ice cold water all over the intercooler only when I flip on a switch. It's only good for using on the dragstrip where I can play with it and dump in ice and cold water.. The whole deal cost be $24 bucks... a water res. (1 quart)..., water pump, hoses and nozzles... it really does work, and allows me to bump up the boost and it seems to cut out detonation. I need to tinker with the nozzles some to get it to work to it's best though... I did it just for fun, and it took about 1 hour. When I get it cleaned up, I'll take some pics ... lol
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Re:Water Injection - THE FACTS!
^dang, didn't think about that... I'll be sure to take caution. I'll spray before I get on the track to get the intercooler cold and ready, then I'll flip the switch a little way down the track. I messed with it today, and it seems to work pretty good. I can't say that it made any real diff in power (maybe a little), but it seems to cut out the pinging after taking off at a stoplight. ... and it's a pretty cool concept. I cleaned it up today and there's really nothing visible except a small water tank, and a switch on the inside, and that's it.
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Re:Water Injection - THE FACTS!
Originally Posted by Turbodelsolman
Why not just use your windshield squirters and put a 90 degree angle sprayer on the end.(whole setup cost me 79 cents :) )
Thats right suck water right into that turbo compressor. Seriously, this is not practical because you have to leave your thumb on the windshield washer button, it is not going to give any benefit (the turbine blades are going to be so hot that the chemicals will just atomize and stay near there, corroding and wearing out the blades. <br><br> You can use a 2 gallon or a 90 gallon reservoir, it doesn't matter. Just keep in mind that the pumps are usually gravity fed, which will limit the way that you install your reservoir. I am using a Saab intercooler as a reservoir, and managed to thread a screw into one of the drain plugs on the bottom, using that to feed to my pump. I am not sure how much of it is emptying, but I do know that it doesn't really need to be filled up except every 2 tanks of gas or so. I usually top it off every time I put gas in the car. But I have drove over 600 miles without having pinging, this is also with the boost sensor set to activate at 1 psi. |
Re:Water Injection - THE FACTS!
Whats your timing set at now? If i put a WI kit on my setup that's already intercooled, how much should I safely retard the timing? Also, should i just take the intercooler off when i put the WI on, wouldn't that seriously decrease my lag?
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Re:Water Injection - THE FACTS!
Originally Posted by Turbodelsolman
Why not just use your windshield squirters and put a 90 degree angle sprayer on the end.(whole setup cost me 79 cents :) )
you would have to have the same type of container to hold the icewater. a pump etc. I guess what i am saying is ... say you have a 2" charge pipe make the same charge pipe in 3" to encase is for a short length. and flow ice water through the void. just another idea i will never have time to try ::) I |
Re:Water Injection - THE FACTS!
You have to play with the timing, I'm not using any fancy machinery just moving the distro on my car to adjust timing.
Leave your distro fully retarded at first, run it, and advance a little bit each time till you feel comfortable. You will be surprised at how much power you'll get. The ice water idea may work, have a pipe inside a pipe, except that the air is moving so fast it won't have alot of time to disipate heat. An intercooler really works well because it moves the air around so much that it has a longer chance of dissipating heat (it also takes advantage of the fins method). You've got a good idea, draw up a prototype :) |
Re:Water Injection - THE FACTS!
The bad part about spraying ANYTHING LIQUID onto the IC is that it is going to get on the turbo sooner or later, and water on the EXTEMELY HOT turbine housing = cracked housings.
My friend and I were discusing the heat sheilds that are avalible to go around the turbine housing and how it would prob. crack the housing pretty quicky, and he noted that water is also another reason they crack and I was like "great, there goes my window spraier on-jection". On some cars it wouldn't be a problem, but hondas turbo sits right by the radiator, which is of course right behind where the sprayier are shooting.. |
Re:Water Injection - THE FACTS!
ok.. I'm not sure what to think, but what do y'all think about those turbo bags that wrap around the turbo HOT side? It would protect the turbo from getting water on it though.
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Re:Water Injection - THE FACTS!
A heater blanket won't cause metal to crack thats the stupidest thing I've ever heard.
A heat blanket is just an extra piece of material to absorb the heat as it builds up from cold to ambient to hot. The heat shields are the same thing, if they're constructed from a stiffer natural element (such as steel or iron). They are designed to hold heat, and release it very steadily. I can understand after talking to Onyx about maybe them cooling down to fast and letting cold air hit the turbo, but that would just be a poorly designed heat shield. When you throw cold water onto a hot piece of metal, the molecules go crazy trying to get closer together on the metal and they ------ out in the water. This is what causes cracking. If you held the piece of metal consistently in cool water there won't be a problem. |
Re:Water Injection - THE FACTS!
the water would be vaporized before it got to the turbo. it wont crack becouse of that.
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Re:Water Injection - THE FACTS!
I guess it depends on the amount of water onjected...
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Re:Water Injection - THE FACTS!
Hey, by chance did you use a fuel filter for your water injection kit? So you don't have to worry about junk gettin in. ALso, when are you gona get some pics of this, and maybe a parts list?
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Re:Water Injection - THE FACTS!
I'm sorry I thought I posted a link somewhere on here with a list of parts you needed? :)
And I thought Onyx already posted pictures! Oh well, I'll get some new ones I'm working on a new reservoir. You never EVER EVER EVER want to inject water BEFORE the turbo, its just to hot. Water touches those thin metal blades and they'll crack. Yes, there is a filter previous to the pump, to make sure that nothing gets through it. I wasn't just talking about heat blankets but the heat shields as well. They both are designed with the same purpose. |
Re:Water Injection - THE FACTS!
this is a statement i have found in a search.
http://www.imoc.co.uk/technical/article/wi.htm Water Injection in a turbo by Chris Wilson Water injection serves 2 closely related functions on a turbo engined car. Firstly it cools the charge air temperature by utilising the effect known as the latent heat of evaporation. This property can be self demonstrated very easily. If you pour something that evaporates quickly like petrol on your hand it feels very cold. This is the rapidly vaporising spirit removing heat from your skin and bloodstream by the aforementioned process. By spraying a very finely atomised mist of water into the inlet of a turbo engine when under boost conditions the evaporation of the water causes a reduction in the air and fuel intake charge. A cold charge is less likely to be subject to detonation than a hot charge. A cool charge is also denser, able to carry more air and fuel mix per cubic foot. These 2 properties of water injection allow either less chance of detonation at a given boost, maybe allowing lower octane fuel to be used, or to allow a rise in boost pressure usage without detonation. These are very desirable goals for any modifier of a turbo engine, or one using an engine mapped to run on a higher octane fuel than generally available in the UK. Japanese import turbo cars for example. People ask whether squirting water into an engine causes corrosion. In fact this is not a problem, the combustion temperatures under boost ensure the water is turned instantly to steam and is ejected out of the exhaust. The water mist is injected only when high boost is sensed via a supplied pressure sensor switch. The basic combustion process of hydrocarbon fuels causes water to be generated anyway, which is why cars not driven on regular long journeys will rust out a mild steel exhaust system form the INSIDE out. If water is added in the correct volume, via the supplied and calibrated jets, this is not a problem. Even when used alongside a larger or more efficient intercooler, or indeed when an intercooler is used in an application where one was not present as standard, water injection can and does increase charge cooling still further. Water can be stored either in the existent windscreen washer bottle or in a separate dedicated container. In cold conditions it is essential to ad an anti freeze additive to the water to stop pump damage through freezing. Windscreen washer additive serves this purpose fine and the engine won't mind ingesting this solution at all. Or you can add neat Methanol, which is usually the anti freeze additive in washer fluid anyway. Using a 50 / 50 percent by volume water methanol mix will actually help increase the octane of the intake charge as an added benefit. As a yet further advantage the latent heat of evaporation of methanol is extremely high. A win/win situation. It is not however obligatory to use methanol as an additive. All components of the water injection kit that are in contact with the fluid are stainless steel or able to tolerate water and methanol or screen washer additive without degradation. A properly set up system does not use a vast amount of water, in fact a car sized screen washer bottle used also for the water injection reservoir will suffice admirably. A water filter is included to keep any sludge out of the pump or jet. This should be checked regularly for contamination and blown out if residue is apparent within. |
Re:Water Injection - THE FACTS!
Originally Posted by Chacko
The ice water idea may work, have a pipe inside a pipe, except that the air is moving so fast it won't have alot of time to disipate heat. An intercooler really works well because it moves the air around so much that it has a longer chance of dissipating heat (it also takes advantage of the fins method). You've got a good idea, draw up a prototype :) |
Re:Water Injection - THE FACTS!
onyx!!!!!!!!!!!!1 you pictures are broken and kyle wants to look at them.
if you can't get them to work on here please e-mail them to me: Honda16hb@hotmail.com |
Re:Water Injection - THE FACTS!
my damn server taht runs the picts is ----. ill try to get them reposted somewhere.
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Re:Water Injection - THE FACTS!
thank you for your care onxy, it's too bad you don't like to drive or we could have hung out for a while.
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Re:Water Injection - THE FACTS!
grr where do you want to meet? denver?
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Re:Water Injection - THE FACTS!
Denver is SUCK :P
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