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Water Injection 2008

Old 02-26-2008, 02:25 AM
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Default Re: Water Injection 2008

Originally Posted by Zriuz
water injection is the S*** 3 years of ultra abuse on my rotary and still perfect... KNOCK OWNED
You sir, have a rotary. We are now friends.

Oh, and you don't have to censor yourself, at least you didn't have to previously.

I don't know if Xeno ****-fied the word filter yet.
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Old 02-26-2008, 02:33 AM
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Default Re: Water Injection 2008

word filter check
----

edit: nope no word filter
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Old 02-26-2008, 12:27 PM
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Default Re: Water Injection 2008

PS Blew my motor on water/meths Maiden Voyage @ 2.2 bars.

Rebuilding then will get back to you guys, watch this space...

PS: The motor was already fucked,, and had slight blow by already it was 30 Degress outside and the car was already sitting in the RED, but it felt so darn Good........

Next thing oil on the windscreen....
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Old 02-26-2008, 07:25 PM
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Old 02-26-2008, 08:03 PM
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Default Re: Water Injection 2008

I drove the car around for about 2 weeks on Just water. then I increased boost with water meth to 1.8 bars did 100 miles in it. then we took it on the road for a Big HP tune. Insert Oil Splat here. anyway I have only got myself to blame...
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Old 02-29-2008, 10:24 PM
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Default Re: Water Injection 2008

I was reading up on water/meth injection...lamans terms said that as water was injected into the system post-turbo and inducted into the motor, it would evaporate once inside the combustion chamber, taking away extra heat--hence added cooling.
The methanol part is used as a detonation preventative (raises octane) so that you could advance timing more for extra tunage.

I've heard that windshield wiper fluid works great as long as you dont use the glycol based fluid.
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Old 02-29-2008, 11:49 PM
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Default Re: Water Injection 2008

Originally Posted by schim187
I was reading up on water/meth injection...lamans terms said that as water was injected into the system post-turbo and inducted into the motor, it would evaporate once inside the combustion chamber, taking away extra heat--hence added cooling.
The methanol part is used as a detonation preventative (raises octane) so that you could advance timing more for extra tunage.

I've heard that windshield wiper fluid works great as long as you dont use the glycol based fluid.
No, water is an oxidation agent as well, it's highly reactive, especially in a combustion reaction where there is so much heat.

The water vaporizes, it never evaporates, i.e. it enters as water and in the combustion reaction gets split into Hydrogen and Oxygen separately, it reforms with excess molecules later. There is some amount of heat absorbed, but it's there for effectively the same reason the alcohol is, raising the octane.

Windshield washer fluid is water and methanol/some kind of propylene molecule.

But yea, this thread shouldn't stay here.
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Old 04-24-2008, 09:36 PM
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Default Re: Water Injection 2008

Originally Posted by wafflesincars
There seems to be a bit of confusion of what the actual benefits of water injection are, essentially by introducing extra mols of Oxygen to the combustion reaction in an engine you are effectively raising the level of energy (heat) needed to react the components, which allows you to compress more gas (producing heat) without having the mixture ignite at the improper time, (better known as detonation).

The easy way to express this is to say that adding Oxygen effectively raises the detonation threshold......

.........What water injection allows you to do is add more molecules of Oxygen to the mixture, essentially raising the "octane rating" of the fuel, the more molecules of reactant the longer the reaction will take, the less preignition/detonation you will have (detonation occurs when the fuel mixture ignites spontaneously at random intervals due to heat, usually collections of matter with different thermal properties than the rest of the metal cause "hotspots"; carbon deposits built up over time are the most common). The introduction of a molecule with a high specific heat capacity also keeps ignition temps reasonable, versus a lean mixture which will incur more heat (less fuel to react and carry away the heat).......


........o, water is an oxidation agent as well, it's highly reactive, especially in a combustion reaction where there is so much heat.

The water vaporizes, it never evaporates, i.e. it enters as water and in the combustion reaction gets split into Hydrogen and Oxygen separately, it reforms with excess molecules later. There is some amount of heat absorbed, but it's there for effectively the same reason the alcohol is, raising the octane...



For the most part I agree with everything you've said, but this part not so. Are you saying that spraying water in the motor adds oxygen? Or are you saying it will suppress detonation and allow you to add more oxygen to make more power? I'll agree with the later. I think that's what your saying, but it's wordy at best. No, now I see you do say it's an oxidizer in a combustion event. How so? I don't think that's correct. If it did, then the hydrogen would react with the oxygen. If that were so, then we could simply spray LOTS of water in the motor with just enough fuel to get the reaction going. In this case we wouldn't need a turbocharger at all, just gas and air to get the reaction going to burn the water.

In simple terms, the water goes through a phase change during the compression stroke, which removes a significant amount of heat from the charge, suppressing detonation. In turn, you can now effectively increase boost to add more oxygen.
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Old 04-25-2008, 08:07 PM
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Default Re: Water Injection 2008

Originally Posted by patsmx5
For the most part I agree with everything you've said, but this part not so. Are you saying that spraying water in the motor adds oxygen? Or are you saying it will suppress detonation and allow you to add more oxygen to make more power? I'll agree with the later. I think that's what your saying, but it's wordy at best. No, now I see you do say it's an oxidizer in a combustion event. How so? I don't think that's correct. If it did, then the hydrogen would react with the oxygen. If that were so, then we could simply spray LOTS of water in the motor with just enough fuel to get the reaction going. In this case we wouldn't need a turbocharger at all, just gas and air to get the reaction going to burn the water.

In simple terms, the water goes through a phase change during the compression stroke, which removes a significant amount of heat from the charge, suppressing detonation. In turn, you can now effectively increase boost to add more oxygen.
Yes it adds oxygen. An oxidant is something that readily accepts electrons. Water is amphoteric, and because of this it can dissociate if it's bombarded by ionized molecules, like you have in super excited reactions (i.e. really high pressure ones). Long chain aliphatic hydrocarbons have a lot of love to give, generally having less C=C bonds don't have as high of a potential as the supplemented aromatics that are used, they still readily form C-OH bonds upon compression and ****** up hydrogen cations like no tomorrow.

The presence of hydroxides and hydrogen ions is what really enhances deflagration and ups the required activation energy of the reaction.

As far as being able to burn the water I think you're neglecting stoichiometric ratio for the charge you're putting into the cylinder, there still has to be enough heat and ionized hydrocarbons to get the water to dissociate in order for it to "burn" properly. A large amount of activation energy is required to have the water enter a transition state as well, liquid water doesn't burn.

Essentially water is somewhat of a catalyst that raises the amount of heat you can throw at the charge before it ignites, as well as raising the density of the charge overall just by evaporation (lower heat levels).

I'm going to go tend to my hangover now.
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Old 05-27-2008, 04:38 AM
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Default Re: Water Injection 2008

so nobody still has numbers to look at what kind of gains were actually dealing with as far as meth/water and water
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