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Turbo Tercel **Old School**
Heres a few pics of my project. Its a 1989 Toyota Tercel Coupe as the title would sugest.
Ive got a Mitsubishi turbo off an 80's Caravan, a 1bbl Carter carb from a 1986 F150 and fuel pump from an old fuelie Volvo, so its going to be bastardized to the max. The plan is to go with an old shool blow through setup, its crude, but should work OK. I picked up a fuel pump for free off a friend of mine and got a Mallory rising rate fuel regulator (1/1). Im going to run all new 3/8" fuel lines for this too. I figure the carter will be fine for lower boost applications (since it has brass floats) but hopefully Il be able to find a 1bbl holley at some point and upgrade that. I originally bought a set of quad Keihins off a street bike, but finding somone to make thr manifold proved to be a bit of an issue. The last bit of actual fabrication if going to be to make a new downpipe, since the turbo is normaly wounted on the rear of the chrysler, and there like NO clearance at all in there. If everyting go's well hopefully there will be a fuelie version 2.0 for next year, but for now Il just be happy to have it up and running. http://memimage.cardomain.net/member...65_26_full.jpg http://memimage.cardomain.net/member...65_36_full.jpg http://memimage.cardomain.net/member...65_37_full.jpg In those pics it is the final mock up for the manifold, I have to pick it up from the welder monday. Its not really the way I would have liked to do it but it was a space issue, I still have to get a narrow rad for it too (scrap yard special). Hopefully it will be functional next weekend, but Im sure theres going to be some kind of unforseen issues, and Im sure tuning the carb is going to be a pain in the ass. Luckily a friend of mine has ALOT of BWM's for parts so we might be able so salvage an old school mechanical bosch fuel injection deal for the next upgrade. |
Re: Turbo Tercel **Old School**
Does that wastegate still work all rusted up like that? i like it, i would never expect it in that car
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Re: Turbo Tercel **Old School**
Awesome toyota. Good luck.
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Re: Turbo Tercel **Old School**
Cool will make a good sleeper and I would leave it all rusty so it looks like it has been that way from the factory.There was another guy on here with a turbo Tercel not to long ago he was running MegaSquirt I believe but none the less if you search maybe it will help with your build.Good luck
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Re: Turbo Tercel **Old School**
I do need to repair the rod for the wastegate, I'm jout going to weld somthing up for it. I think the gouy your talking about that was running the megasquirt is probably Quadir, he has a pretty nice setup. That thing takes some abuse too, running 10psi daily, and has been doing so since he built it. I bought some new beefier rods and a re ring kit for mine too to handle a little extra abuse.
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Re: Turbo Tercel **Old School**
That would be a nice sleeper. I think you should get another turbo in better condition. Check the For Sale Forum. Customcoach has a sale on some used turbos.
Good luck with your project. |
Re: Turbo Tercel **Old School**
your turbo and car look liek deuce.
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Re: Turbo Tercel **Old School**
Yeah, the turbo looks pretty tough (and so does the car for what its worth) but it dosent have any shaft play, so it will do for now. A friend of mine has a few old chrysler turbos at his place too, so if I need one I can get it.
I will probably upgrade everything as soon as I get this version working well. Ive got new springs, struts, wheels & tires that will be going on too. |
Re: Turbo Tercel **Old School**
BTW, my car actually looks better than it is in that pic. Winter, salt, and 17 year old Toyotas dont mix, ha ha. A friend of mine works at a shop that has a media blaster, so I wonder how much car I will even have left after that. I was thinking about mabey picking up another coupe from "down south" at the end of the summer, if I cant fix this one.
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Re: Turbo Tercel **Old School**
mmmmm...........interresting maybe there still is hope for me after all
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Re: Turbo Tercel **Old School**
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member...65_39_full.jpg
Hot interior :8 Nice car, good luck with the project |
Re: Turbo Tercel **Old School**
Looking at it now, I kinda wish I had cleaned out the garbage before i took that pic, ha ha ha.
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Re: Turbo Tercel **Old School**
Where are you gonna put the radiator? It looks pretty tight for the stock location... :l
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Re: Turbo Tercel **Old School**
Im going to look for a "half rad" either from a same body style tercel or find one of similar dimentions from a 90's civic. Thats the plan anyways.
Also, I just picked up the finished manifold, carb adapter, and carb hat today. I might have to re make the carb hat.. its a little thinner than I sould have liked so Im bnot sure how good its going to seal. |
Re: Turbo Tercel **Old School**
Minor Update ... Not going to use the carter 1bbl anymore. Since the car is going to be apart for a bit Ive decided to take the time to install the Keihins instead. The advantage is that that they can take ALOT of boost (the carter had brass floats so 5psi was pretty much the limit) and should provide more than adequate fuel delivery.
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member...65_40_full.jpg Im planning to make the intake out of some steel plate and some steam pipe (or somthing of the like). I will alse be able to make some fittings where the coolant would have normaly gone through the intake and use that for the turbo. Throttle response whould be good to. |
Re: Turbo Tercel **Old School**
Heres a pic of my completed manifold
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member...65_42_full.jpg http://memimage.cardomain.net/member...65_44_full.jpg |
Re: Turbo Tercel **Old School**
Turbo + itb? Sweet...
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Re: Turbo Tercel **Old School**
Looking good.Keep the updates coming.
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Re: Turbo Tercel **Old School**
Prepare for those welds on the manifold to crack. Cast has a different expansion rate.
On the bright side, making a log mani for that wouldn't be to hard. |
Re: Turbo Tercel **Old School**
Wow
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Re: Turbo Tercel **Old School**
manifold looks horrendous haha
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Re: Turbo Tercel **Old School**
Il probably try making a new manifold for it later, but at least I have somthing for the time being. I might just wait till I get a 5EFHE head and get a proper manifold for that instead, the 12 valve head is kinda ----. At any rate Im hoping the manifold will last for a while, the place I got it welded said they had some kind of specific rod they used to weld to cast so mabey I have a chance.
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Re: Turbo Tercel **Old School**
Awesome dude. These are the kind of set ups i love. Keep up the good work.
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Re: Turbo Tercel **Old School**
I got a better turbo over the weekend, yeah the old one wsa pretty ghetto. The turbo is from a Daytona Shelby CS (GT25?), and seems to be in MUCH better shape them mine was. It bolted right up to the manifold Ive got already, and it has a 90 on the inlet side so i'l even be able to use and air filter now. Should be starting the install this weekend. Going to get the used pistons put on the new rods and have the head done hopefully by saturday.
Im still dreading tuning those quad carbs, but I do know somone with a turbo 1100 ninja so I should be able to get the help I need. I scored a set of prelude seats (recarro??) on the cheap so they will be going in and the interior will be coming out at the same time. I did have a bit of time the other weekend so I installed the new suspention, and wheels & tires. What a difference, it handles like a champ now. KYB struts and "welfare" coil overs off ebay. It was about $300 for everything so Im happy with the price for sure, and it looks a hell of alot better. http://memimage.cardomain.net/member...65_49_full.jpg |
Re: Turbo Tercel **Old School**
cool car, i want one!
that car looks like the old rally cars and with the turbo + itb it could drive like one good luck finishing it.. |
Re: Turbo Tercel **Old School**
Car looks pretty tight, good luck with the new turb
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Re: Turbo Tercel **Old School**
You are going to hand some people thier asses with that thing.
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Re: Turbo Tercel **Old School**
I like the car. But why did'nt you clock the turbo and move is closer to the engine, then you could run a stock sized radiator? It looks like it's hanging out 4ft.
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Re: Turbo Tercel **Old School**
At the time when I mocked it up I hadnt really though of "clocking it", most of the 4EFTE Tervels are using a half rad so Im not too woried about it. I think I'l make a log manifold for ver. 2.0.
On this one Im hoping to get the weight down to like 1300 - 1500 lbs, should be an easily attainable goal. If I can get that weight and 200ish HP it should go alright. |
Re: Turbo Tercel **Old School**
If you do get the weight down and get the 200 hp your looking for, Then you can totally imberise some duesch bag in his srt-4.…As he does his ricer fly by you look over and see the look on his girls face like ---- now I got to hear this fucker bitch all night. :1
I love it nobody is going to see it coming from a tercel. >:D |
Re: Turbo Tercel **Old School**
Just for a basis on what Im expecting for weight... A friend of mine had a coupe like minse striped for a racer, and he weighed it at 1100lbs, the only difference is I need a passenger seat and the turbo. So I think my weight expectations are inline.
As far as the power expectation, its really more of a guestimate, or a goal. I dont have anyhting to really back it up. Im just figuring Ive got all the carburation Il ever need and I can just crank the boost. Im hopint to run probably like 7psi for a while to wee how it goes and then increase it to 15 or so. I treid to use that "tubo selection for noobs" bit but it went over my head pretty quick |
Re: Turbo Tercel **Old School**
theirs a turbo calculator at http://www.---------------------------/DIYturboselect.shtml
it runs off of microsoft excel and doesn't require any math skills. |
Re: Turbo Tercel **Old School**
Hey man, My project is a blow through turbo setup, but I'm using a downdraft Weber.
I'll give you a few pointers that should help you out. As a rule of thumb for blow through carby cars, fuel pressure should be 3-4psi above boost pressure at all times. So at zero boost you will have 3psi fuel pressure, which is pretty standard for NA carbs. 5psi boost you should have 8psi fuel pressure, 10psi boost = 13psi fuel pressure ET CETERA. Fuel pressure must be higher than boost, otherwise the boost pressure forces the fuel back down the fuel lines. Due to the design of the "carbutetor" you cannot just blast fuel into it because you will be constantly forcing the float down, and flooding it completely. Such equals the 3psi rule, so no matter what boost you are running, if your fuel is 3 or so psi higher, the carburetor will work as it is intended to (in this system too, there are MANY other issues on hand). Your throttle shafts have to have a perfect seal. If you lose any boost out of here, it will run like ratshit and you will never ever find the solution until your shafts are sealed. Theory here, The airflow over the venturi draws the fuel at the correct mixture, but when the pressurized air leaks out of the shafts it will run very rich, because you've lost the air but still have the same ammount of fuel. Unless your shafts are screwed and you squirt a mist of fuel out of the shaft. Then your stuffed and it will still run like ----. 1 way of correcting all this bullshit, is to literally encolse your carb in an AIRTIGHT box. The entire thing. and then run airtight seals for your throttle cable, fuel lines etc. This way, the pressure around and inside the carb is the same (Xpsi), carb has its own atmospheric pressure, and runs as per normal. Jets will need to be alot richer. You have a severe issue with using the bike carbs. Although they can be Very powerful or NA cars (as powerful as quad throttle bodies), they have issues with boost. As far as I know, the shafts and their design can handle boost fine. The problem, is that each carb (they are 4 individual carbs..) is only single throat. Now the carbs will need to be alot richer than normal to give you a good mixture under boost, but this directly means that you are going to have an EXTREMELY rich setup when you are not making boost. Get it? This is no problem with my Weber, as it has a primary and a secondary throat. Primary is setup for off-boost driving, so fairly standard jetting. Secondary opens up with a combniation of vacuum and +50% throttle. = Secondaries open when turbo kicks in. Richer jets are your away. One more point, your distributor. It isnt electronic, old school mechanical shizzle in action here. NA cars advance the timing as the RPM's increase, to maintain a steady increase in power/constant compression. You have two systems in place, Mechanical advance which is built into your distributor (centrifigal) and Vacuum advance, which takes its signal off the intake manifold. To run boost at the best possible way, LOCK the mechanical advance, and set up boost retard. Of course this is only a guide, and It is something you will ultimately have to work out for yourself. Good luck |
Re: Turbo Tercel **Old School**
To handle the fuel presure I got a Mallory rising rate fuel pressure regulator, it was recomended as a low buck alternative to the Aeromotive one from (somone on turbomustangs.com). Ive also got a bosch fuel pump from an old fuelie mercedes (actually the same one i got my headlights from)
I was originally going to get the weber but the kit was a little out of my price range. Could I just set it up to be a little rich when not under boost and use some cold start injectors and a presure switch to make it up when under boost?? What would you recomend in the way of retarding the timing under boost mechanically?? Would it just work the same way the vaccume adcance does but in reverse, like would I be able to use the same mechanisim? Thats somthing I hadn't considered, I was just going to lock it and forget about it. |
Re: Turbo Tercel **Old School**
gsand... way to go noob. Ive been waiting for someone who knows alot about turbos + carbs for awhile. Solid info buddy :6
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Re: Turbo Tercel **Old School**
Originally Posted by SinisterCRX
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member...65_39_full.jpg
Hot interior :8 Nice car, good luck with the project |
Re: Turbo Tercel **Old School**
Originally Posted by ComptonsF1NEST
i think a short shifter should be at the top of ur list :S
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Re: Turbo Tercel **Old School**
Tell me about it, the shifter is frickin garbage. It like stirring a bowl of pool balls with a 10ft pole. Im going to cut it down a but and move the fulcrum up a bit, and change the rubber bushings in the linkage for bearings.. That, combined with some poly motor mounts should firm it up a bit.
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Re: Turbo Tercel **Old School**
That thing is sweet!
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Re: Turbo Tercel **Old School**
Originally Posted by sohcpwr
gsand... way to go noob. Ive been waiting for someone who knows alot about turbos + carbs for awhile. Solid info buddy :6
Astrovannin, a vacuum advance actuater will not retard under the opossite condition (boost). But, it is possible to make them work as such. I read about a man in the US who turbo'd his Datsun 1600 (err datsun 510 to you yanks, no offence). He managed to use the standard distributor, with what seemed to be simple modifications. He installed a spring inside the actuator, which held the advance arm at its maximum reach. In this siituation, the advance mechanisim is held at full advance when static. When boost is applied, it forces the arm back against the pressure of the spring. Your static timing has to be retarted to make way for the advance being held at full, obviously. This seemed like a fairly simple design, and seemed to work very well for this guy. But it would be very tricky to set up properly, and never really be perfect. Things such as 1. Sealing the canister to handle boost, rather than vacuum with (which is far more powerful). 2. Setting the spring to operate at the boost pressure, may retard too early and make a big flatspot, or retard too late and put undue stress on your motor. The 3rd factor, is the travel of the actuator arm. This has to be very precise, because it determites the actual amount of retard is implicated. As you may know, even 1 degree can make a difference. You then have other choices, such as retrofitting a vacuum retard canister from another car. Over the years (predominately in the mid to late 80's) many turbo cars were being produced using carburetors. A few that spring to mind is the Renault 5 Turbo, Mitsi Sigma turbo, buh, heaps more. Just rip the retard module off it, and if you know how the systems work in dizzy's, its a pretty simple thing. If you get the offset points the same as the original turbo dizzy, it it should retard the same ammount. If you are running lots of boost, I suppose you could use a manual boost controller on the boost line, to limit the booost supply. Well I hope this helps you out a bit, feel free to shoot me a PM or whatever and I'll answer the best I can.... I was going to get a rising rate fuel reg, but a person I know has his turbo carby car set up the same way I described. I have a bosch efi fuel pump (external), with somesort of regulator that came with it, which I will be feeding directly into the carby, and then returning back to the tank after the float bowl is filled. The weber carbs have provision for this in the castings, just need to be drilled, tapped, and a hosebarb fitted. It it means anything, My car is not running yet, the motor is being built as we speak, but I'll be posting the whole lot and progress pics/writeups along the way. And yes, I have planned for many headaches along the way :) |
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