Tuning: Street or Dyno?
10-26-2003, 03:03 PM
#1
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Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 119
Tuning: Street or Dyno?
Ok, sorry bout Sean's thread. I get hot headed sometimes...
But, what do you guys prefer?
I know that most tuners would prefer teh street given the choice. I know that i can see more gains with a wideband and an egt on the street with real part throttle and real loads than i can on teh dyno.
so, what are your thoughts?
But, what do you guys prefer?
I know that most tuners would prefer teh street given the choice. I know that i can see more gains with a wideband and an egt on the street with real part throttle and real loads than i can on teh dyno.
so, what are your thoughts?
10-26-2003, 03:18 PM
#2
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Posts: 13,991
Re:Tuning: Street or Dyno?
Well, lots of us are low-budget and do street tuning, the *** dyno can only go so far without real tools like Wideband and EGT's.. I remember years ago the way we did it was bust out the cheezy AF gauge make sure it was green and didnt hear any pinging, and pray it was good.
Dyno tuning to me, is the best way of doing things, lots of people live by these "numbers" yes its somewhat ridicouls at times, but I think all of us need to get those #'s for personal sake. Because people are always asking "hey whats your 1/4 mile time" or "how much hp do you have" atleast with a dyno you will know your numbers. Tuning on a dyno has been pretty good for me, every tuner that I have ever met has always said you may want to add a little bit more fuel in your map for street use since a dyno isnt exactly the same as driving on the road. Plus, I think for tuning a car partial throttle and just cruise would be done better on the road.
Dyno tuning to me, is the best way of doing things, lots of people live by these "numbers" yes its somewhat ridicouls at times, but I think all of us need to get those #'s for personal sake. Because people are always asking "hey whats your 1/4 mile time" or "how much hp do you have" atleast with a dyno you will know your numbers. Tuning on a dyno has been pretty good for me, every tuner that I have ever met has always said you may want to add a little bit more fuel in your map for street use since a dyno isnt exactly the same as driving on the road. Plus, I think for tuning a car partial throttle and just cruise would be done better on the road.
10-26-2003, 03:30 PM
#3
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Re:Tuning: Street or Dyno?
well, the numbers game is human nature.
Everyone wants to make HUGE peak numbers.
I personally could care less. I want my car to run good, boost good, and extract every last bit of power I can.
Sure, one day i'll toss mine on the dyno, but just cause it's free.
Everyone wants to make HUGE peak numbers.
I personally could care less. I want my car to run good, boost good, and extract every last bit of power I can.
Sure, one day i'll toss mine on the dyno, but just cause it's free.
10-27-2003, 03:42 PM
#4
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Re:Tuning: Street or Dyno?
I agree with the statement in the previous thread about the overall number being distorted. I however do think that a dyno can help for tuning without changing components, only settings with existing components. A dyno can also show more than peak numbers, it shows how the power is delivered throughout the rpm range. Street tuning with all the stuff you have avilable on the dyno (wb02, datalog, opportunity to go wot) yields similar results but with trade-offs. You get the real world air flow through the engine bay. On the other hand, you don't have a definative net output and change in output. Big advantage to street tuning is if it's a street car, it's being tuned in it's element.
Wow, more than I planned to put down, but hey. That's my thoughs.
Wow, more than I planned to put down, but hey. That's my thoughs.
10-27-2003, 03:55 PM
#5
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Re:Tuning: Street or Dyno?
well, you made viable points as to WHY to street tune, but not very good ones for dyno
who cares what numbers you're putting out? I mean, that's purley for bragging rights.
power delivery is going to be determined by the car..and you'll feel just as much as you'll see. IF there is a hiccup on the dyno...you can see it, but in the car you will FEEL it. Feeling is MUCH better than seeing.
Drag cars MIGHT benifit from dyno's just because they only NEED WOT. Street cars don't need it nearly as much, so street tuning is the obvious better of the two.
who cares what numbers you're putting out? I mean, that's purley for bragging rights.
power delivery is going to be determined by the car..and you'll feel just as much as you'll see. IF there is a hiccup on the dyno...you can see it, but in the car you will FEEL it. Feeling is MUCH better than seeing.
Drag cars MIGHT benifit from dyno's just because they only NEED WOT. Street cars don't need it nearly as much, so street tuning is the obvious better of the two.
10-27-2003, 05:12 PM
#6
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Re:Tuning: Street or Dyno?
As far as bragging rights, partially true. When you are laying down 300 hp and more with a street tune, can you really tell the difference in 15 ft/lbs of torque at 3500 rpm? It's really important if that rise in torque is stretched over 800-1300 rpms. A dyno will put the spikes curves onto paper so you can see the points at which these event occoured. Also this will help you determine things such as shift points, rev limiter, and crossover points for vtec. Like I said, tuning on the street for a street car isn't bad at all and is especially good if you have all the nice and expensive equipment to do so. For the average joe with the hack, taking it to a dyno for that nice wbo2 and record [of what the car is doing while accelerating] is absolutely fitting.
10-28-2003, 10:34 AM
#8
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Re:Tuning: Street or Dyno?
Well, then this discussion is really moot. For a street tune, all you really need is a wbo2 and the ability to adjust ignition and fuel, right? Do a couple of pulls in 3rd and watch all the gauges you can, then make adjustments. Make another pull to see if it feels the way you want. But....
A dyno with integraded wbo2 can show a/f as it corresponds with rpms for those like me who can't afford a full ems. And like I said before, a dyno will help you determine a vtec crossover point and smarter shift points than just before fuel cut-off. Not to mention gratification for many comes in hp numbers.
Another thing I thought about over night (ok in the shower
) is that a dyno is a tool. Saying dyno tuning is completely worthless is like saying a flow bench can't yeild gains in a real world application. What about N/A applications? Do you think that street tuning with a naturally aspirated car will yeild the best gains? That I refuse to belive. You can spend hours upon hours on the dyno and gain little by little.
A dyno with integraded wbo2 can show a/f as it corresponds with rpms for those like me who can't afford a full ems. And like I said before, a dyno will help you determine a vtec crossover point and smarter shift points than just before fuel cut-off. Not to mention gratification for many comes in hp numbers.
Another thing I thought about over night (ok in the shower
) is that a dyno is a tool. Saying dyno tuning is completely worthless is like saying a flow bench can't yeild gains in a real world application. What about N/A applications? Do you think that street tuning with a naturally aspirated car will yeild the best gains? That I refuse to belive. You can spend hours upon hours on the dyno and gain little by little.
10-28-2003, 01:22 PM
#10
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Posts: 232
Re:Tuning: Street or Dyno?
I think the big thin being negated in this thread is the type of dyno and the power absorbtion if any it might have., Typically all of the dyno jets i have seen are ertermly in accurate down right to the point of being un repeatable run to run wihtout modifications of tunning done.
If your going to do dyno tnning its best to either use a Mustang with and eddy current or a superflow. Both of these are extremly accurate repeatable dynos. Typically i can get within 1% of my peak power that i made every time when i go back week to week to tune.
I think the point is that street tunning can offer a chance to refine the way a car drives but if your trying to get maximum Power at some point you will have to use a REALIABLE dyno.
There is just no way the but dyno is that accurate. now i have used with great sucess a Gtech and the same stretch of road. pick a piece of road start and stoip at the same points and get a newer Gtech. The point is not to look at the Gross time etc it give you but to follow the trends that increase the cars performance.
Just my 2cents. you aboslutely have to have some way to measure performance. Alot of the GM datalogging software now includes a 1/4 Mile calculator built in and it works off the VSS sensor input. might be something to check into. Also there is a new product i like a great deal called dynorad. its a nice piece and is far more reliable then a Gtech. and more accurate.
If your going to do dyno tnning its best to either use a Mustang with and eddy current or a superflow. Both of these are extremly accurate repeatable dynos. Typically i can get within 1% of my peak power that i made every time when i go back week to week to tune.
I think the point is that street tunning can offer a chance to refine the way a car drives but if your trying to get maximum Power at some point you will have to use a REALIABLE dyno.
There is just no way the but dyno is that accurate. now i have used with great sucess a Gtech and the same stretch of road. pick a piece of road start and stoip at the same points and get a newer Gtech. The point is not to look at the Gross time etc it give you but to follow the trends that increase the cars performance.
Just my 2cents. you aboslutely have to have some way to measure performance. Alot of the GM datalogging software now includes a 1/4 Mile calculator built in and it works off the VSS sensor input. might be something to check into. Also there is a new product i like a great deal called dynorad. its a nice piece and is far more reliable then a Gtech. and more accurate.
