supercharger has Turbolag?
 

i wa wondering about that SC like JR has turbolag, i think yes but not much like a TC .... what do you think?

Re: supercharger has Turbolag?
 

centrifical s/c's have lag

Re: supercharger has Turbolag?
 

ok, so root s/c hasnt lag then... Ty! ;)

Re: supercharger has Turbolag?
 

Superchargers aren't really matched that well on high reving FWD cars like our hondas.

Re: supercharger has Turbolag?
 

i think that too though i've seen runing some Integras with S/C very good and fast! i prefer TC but it's just doubt about that because i look severals guyds saying that S/C is better than TC because it hasnt turbolag :l

Re: supercharger has Turbolag?
 

A good turbo setup will smoke a supercharger setup anyday. Superchargers are expensive and they don't put down much power at all. The powerband on our hondas are from 4-5k all the way to redline, so worrying about low end power or turbo lag shouldn't even matter. When I'm racing on the street I launch at 4,000rpms and never drop below that when shifting, so the low end power a S/C would give you won't ever come into play.

Re: supercharger has Turbolag?
 

If you properly set up your turbo there would be zero to no lag.

Re: supercharger has Turbolag?
 

What the hell are you taking about? There is always going to be lag.

Re: supercharger has Turbolag?
 

x2 :P

hyper4mance2k , really? how can i would get zero lag with T3/T04B 0.60/0.48? (what do you think about this turbo on B16?)..

Re: supercharger has Turbolag?
 

turbos are better, superchargers take horespower to make horsepower, turbo on the other hand is free horserpower.

Re: supercharger has Turbolag?
 

LAUNCH CONTROLE, NO LAG ---- caps was on

Re: supercharger has Turbolag?
 

You see the problem here is that most people don't know what they are referring to when they speak of this LAG. They are mostly speaking of BOOST THRESHOLD. Boost threshold is the rpm at which "FULL" boost comes on in each gear (yes each gear is has a different boost threshold because of the transient changes in rpm and the load on the motor).

Lag is the time it takes for full boost to come on after the boost threshold.

There will always be lag on any motor/turbo combo. It can be reduced however, but none the less it will be always present. Even superchargers have lag. It just tends to be shorter.

Even N/A motors have a "lag." Vacumn doesn't go away instantly. It still will take some amount of time.

Re: supercharger has Turbolag?
 

True there will allways be some sort of lag. But the reason A lot of honda guys go t3/t4 is cause the t3 is a nice small turbine and will spin rather quickly. and the big t4 side will makes ots of boost. The key to low lag is a smaller turbo. For example If I was to put a t3 on my 13b then I would litterally boost at idle and there would be almost zero lag about 1/10 of a sceond worth, but the turbo would be maxed out at 3000k rpms, and be nothing but a restriction for my high reving rotary after that. I'm not to much of an athurity on turbo hondas. I'm a weber guru though. Direct all weber carb questions here. LOL! I hate how carbs get a bad rep in the import tuning world. A properly setup carburetor will allways make more peak HP than fuel injection.

Re: supercharger has Turbolag?
 

Wow I know I'm going to take heat for the carb statement so I'll preemptivly defend myself. It is true that FI is much easyier to tune and you will allways make more HP and TQ across the revrange with FI over carb, but a carb properly setup will allways make more peak HP than fuel injection. The reason is air intake temprature. When air crosses the choke velocity increases and there is a pressure drop and the venturi effect pulls fuel out of the bowl into the air streem. While this happens there is a dramatic drop in air temps. Cooler AIT's more power. In the winter and fall times I would get ice on my intake manifold when the car was running at full opperating temp. The drop in AIT is usually in the neighborhood of 20-50* from ambiant.

Re: supercharger has Turbolag?
 

I run a centrifugal blower on my 97 mustang. I don't really understand why they would not be good on hondas. While you get a noticable increase in power thruout with a centrifugal, you get most of the power above 3000 rpm. So it should be a perfect match for a high reving motor. Turbo vs supercharger arguements aside
The roots style blowers are a different story. Getting instant torque is kind of the opposite of the powerband on a honda. That is why it seems funny that people always want to run the roots blowers on there.

I guess with turbos, you have ultimate flexibility. On my 89 TT 5.0 mustang, the motor redlines at 6K so I set up the turbos on the small side to spool quick and max out not too far above the redline on there. That seems to work pretty well.
Erich

Re: supercharger has Turbolag?
 

You can't really compare your car to a honda. Your mustang is RWD and you can put big fatty tires on it, so you have traction. Our hondas are FWD with dinky tires, so traction is a big issue. Your car also has a V8 compared to our tiny 4 cylinder motors, so you actually have power to turn the S/C. The powerband between your car is also very different, a b-series motor is going to start making good power around 5k, which is getting close to your redline, and we can rev all the way to 8-9k.

The S/C kits out there for hondas are expensive and don't make ---- for power, the majority of the b-series S/C hondas I see on honda-tech or other car forums are lucky to make 250whp at 10psi, and you can't turn the boost up anymore because the S/C isn't efficient past that. If somebody makes a custom S/C kit, then I'm sure they could get it to work well on a honda, but your basic JRSC kit or other kit is crap.

Re: supercharger has Turbolag?
 

All turbos will have some lag because they don't have a direct coupling to the engine. Superchargers can have lag too. With a supercharger lag is caused by excessive volume in the piping to the intake manifold. Having an intercooler will aggravate this problem even more.

Roots and centrifugal superchargers both suffer from lag the same. Where a roots supercharger has an advantage is it will generate boost at lower rpms than a centrifugal will (Note: this is not lag). A roots supercharger is not subject to surge and choke conditions either. A roots type supercharger has some drawbacks though. It is not as efficient as a centrifugal supercharger. This lack of efficiency means more parasitic power drain and increased charge temperatures.

Turbos will generate more power than a supercharger however. Turbos extract power from energy normally just blown out the tail pipe. This energy that is utilized by the turbo is the blowdown pressure in the exhaust stroke and heat( turbos convert some of the exhaust heat to work). Unfortunatly turbos do create additional backpressure and are affected much more by intake volume induced lag.

To reduce intake volume lag take the following steps. Keep all piping runs between the compressor and the intake manifold as short as possible. If an intercooler is used try to keep the piping run between the intercooler outlet and the intake manifold as short as possible because a cooled charger occupies less space than a warmer one. If you are willing to trade off charge cooling capacity for less lag, an air to water intercooler would be a good choice instead of an air to air intercooler as the volume is less in the air to water intercooler.

Re: supercharger has Turbolag?
 

You guys are getting too technical for me lol.

Turbocharger on a Honda = Good

Supercharger on a Honda = Poop

This isn't homemadesupercharger.com...

:P

Re: supercharger has Turbolag?
 

^^for shizzle. why would it have TURBO lag? its a supercharger :-*

Re: supercharger has Turbolag?
 

Cause a supercharger is a belt driven turbo charger. Fine we'll call it boost lag.
And turbo's arenot free hourse power. Try this run your car with a nice header, then put a manifold turbo and dp on and don't hook up the charge pipe. Now tell me if all that back pressure hasn't cost you any power. Turbos are not free HP since you need HP to turn the fan.

Re: supercharger has Turbolag?
 

nice thread haha. i agree with the last thread of beerbongskickass


Turbocharger on a Honda = Good

Supercharger on a Honda = Poop

This isn't homemadesupercharger.com...

;D

Re: supercharger has Turbolag?
 

I was looking on the procharger website. Here are some specs from a customers honda.
2000 Honda Civic si

ProCharger:
C-1A

Intercooler:
2 Core

Naturally Aspirated ET/mph:
15.6ET @ 95 mph

Best ET/mph:
12.6 ET @ 108 mph

Naturally Aspirated RWHP:
160

ProCharged RWHP:
320

Boost Level:
10 psi

Exhaust:
DC Sports 4-1 header and 3 inch custom exhaust and 3 inch racing cat

Vehicle Specs:
93 octane, 1.6 DOHC Vtec, fully built bottom end, cp pistons, eagel h-beam rods blueprinted and balanced crank, ported and polished head, obx full race intake manifold, msd 6-al and ss race coil, arospeed 10.5 plug wires, spec stage 3 clutch, vafc fuel controler

Gear:
stock

That does not seem too bad. Again, I'm not super familiar with specs on modified hondas.
Of course, there is no way that can equal the bang for the buck of a homemade turbo setup. Or the potential of turbos.
Erich

Re: supercharger has Turbolag?
 

sound nice yeah! :P

Re: supercharger has Turbolag?
 

That doesn't seem right at all. I ran 12.6 @ 107mph with 230whp. A car with 320whp (no way that number is at the wheels) is going to trap a lot higher than that. I bet that S/C kit costs $3,000 then building the motor and head will cost another $2,000 or more. That looks like a shitty deal to me.

Re: supercharger has Turbolag?
 

Honda made a Rear Wheel Drive Civic. Why didn't I buy one!

Re: supercharger has Turbolag?
 

Haha I didn't even notice that. Pretty funny though.

Re: supercharger has Turbolag?
 

hahahahaha i love my hatch cuz i can to drift with it! ;D

Re: supercharger has Turbolag?
 

AH!! The eternal turbo VS supercharger debate!!

Basically both supply what we need: Boost!!!!

Although a supercharged honda drives VERY WELL with acceptable power and reliability,
such setups are more expensive and not as customizeable as quivalent power turbo setups. I think these two reasons alone are a good enough explanation for the lesser populartity of the SC on hondas.

I agree with those who believe that a properly chosen turbo on a well tuned engine will have no significant lag. Yes there's always a lag but it can be reduced enough to almost match a supercharger of the same power rating.
Significant Lag on turbo cars is mostly when huge turbos are used for major gains of over 100$ from atmospheric HP.
But for a 8 psi setup and 50-60 % hp gains from atmospheric, you can definitely make a turbo setup with virtually no spool up.

Re: supercharger has Turbolag?
 

yeah, and hello, i dunno if you know who am i (sound strange haha), but i hope to buy to you a T3/T04B for my project ;)

Re: supercharger has Turbolag?
 

since the subject has been brought up i have also heard that using a supercharger durasticly reduces the life of your engine because of the strain it puts on it from the horsepower it takes to run. befor anyone says it i don't mean because it boosts your horsepower a lot but the strain it puts on everything to run itself. is this true just wondering? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???

Re: supercharger has Turbolag?
 

Bull. It can in theory wearout your front main seal faster or front bearing. but again that's in theory there is no way to really measure it. And they don't take that much horse power to run if you set them up properly. 20-40 maybe, and if a recirculatory valve is used then they use no HP when off boost. You can also set them up with a clutch pulley that kicks on when a full throttle switch kicks on.

Re: supercharger has Turbolag?
 

In my application, the supercharger and motor have been extremely robust. I have 287,000 miles on that motor. 180,000 with the supercharger. The worst thing I find with the supercharger is the belts. the procharger is setup to tie into the serpentine belt so when it breaks, you lose alternator water pump etc. And the belts DO break. Like 25,000 miles is a long life for a belt. The idler pullies and tensioners take a beating too. Then when the pullies get sloppy, the belt chafes and lasts really short.
The turbos setups are way more fun to me. Lots more variables to mess with and power gains are unbelievable.

Lol I knew people were going to catch that RWD business from procharger. I think their form was setup with RWD as default. No way is buying a supercharger setup and building a motor going to touch the bang for the buck of a HMT setup. I just threw it up here for illustration that superchargers can be made to work pretty decent.
Erich

Re: supercharger has Turbolag?
 

The strain a superchrager puts on the engine to run it is very small in comparison to the strain brought about by the increase in horsepower. This is not to say that it will not strain the place you mount it to. For example if you half ass install it to the mounts that are supposed to hold the airconditioning compressor its likely to flex and possibly break the mount.

As stated by others here it will strain the pullies and belts. Its best to have the supercharger on its own pully and belt to avoid wear on other devices driven by the belt.

Re: supercharger has Turbolag?
 

as i said that is what i have heard i didn't know for sure so i asked.

Re: supercharger has Turbolag?
 

prochargers flow a lot of cfm, so with the honda's i wouldn't see why but with a t3/t4 it will hit much sooner than the procharger because the spool goes by engine load and superchargers go by rpm.

So ya on a high revving motor you can have a big turbo and it would rape sause a supercharger setup because of the spool up time.

So what it comes down to is when will your powerband start? and how much cfm you're flowing.

Remember PSI != power.

Yes psi is a factor but it all comes down to CFM