Northstar Engines
 

Hey Every One!
Well idk if any one here knows any thing about northstar engines. I was looking at a northstar 4.6 (not for a civic) I been doing alot of google searches and can't really find any thing that great on them as far as info goes. I am posting on a NorthStar forum but the people there aren't much help i m still looking just seeing if any of the great people at HMT knew any thing on them. Any of u know any sites on them? I want to know how much boost they can handle stock. Also what size turbo would i use for V8 or even if I do a twin turbo set up? Sorry this post is kinda newbie-ish.

Thanks,
Tom

Re:Northstar Engines
 

If you build a TT Northstar, you will be my hero. I can't offer any info, but those things are scary fast. What is this going in?

BTW, that's where I got my screen name from. ;D
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Re:Northstar Engines
 

Well I am hoping to start a extensive project this summer. I want to put this thing in (don't laugh) a Fiero :-[. I hear the ECU's on those things are hard to work on. So can i just use a stand alone unit?

Thanks,
Tom

Re:Northstar Engines
 

there are some stand alone units that will run just about anything, if you have the right sensors. How much boost? Well is the block aluminum or iron, what's the compression, etc...

Re:Northstar Engines
 

judging from waht i know.. DOHC 32 valve etc.. im gonna guess the comp ratio is pretty up there.. that might be a bit harsh with boost.... but even a low boost northstar would rip some serious ass

good luck

Re:Northstar Engines
 

There is no way that the compression is above 10.1 which is completely acceptable for boost. As for fuel management you could use the AEM EMS universal, the Accel DFI or MOTEC but they are all expensive as ---- so if you don't have the money for it just do a search on Megasquirt DIY ECU which is a complete stand alone that is good to 30psi and cost $280.00 total

Re:Northstar Engines
 

the dude from canada that built that festiva w/ a turbo mazda engine in it and that ROCKIN 1.8t rabbit dropped a northstar engine into a A2 golf......i've seen video of it, its HOT. a TT northstar would own.........but you might need a standalone system to run it.

Re:Northstar Engines
 

i saw a 32v northstar sandrail... it was pretty pimp... and of course i see lots of old men and women in caddies with the northstar engine tear outta red lights and fly past ppl on the highway... its hilarious... those caddies are pretty fast. esp once you get em movin....

Re:Northstar Engines
 

really? all i see is hte old fucks driving around doing 20 mph under the speed limit and not even touching the potental of that motor. :-\

Re:Northstar Engines
 

i see a lot of that too... but i see so many of those cars around... prob 15 or more a day... one day i was behind an old lady in a like 90 something buick la-saber... it said supercharged around the taillight on the back... she floor'd it from the light and i couldnt even come close to staying behind her... i think it had the 3800 supercharged v6

Re:Northstar Engines
 

Don't foget about all the drug dealers who drive northstar powered caddys.


Do you already have in your possession the northstart motor or just still in the design phaze? They are considerably more complicated then your average late model vortec motor.

It might be an easier route to go with an aluminum sbc with some aluminum trick flow heads on it, would give you an equal fabrication challenge, and very close in weight to the 4.6L N Star. Finding a custom fuel setup is way easy for an SBC, and you can always do a roller lifter setup for quick revs.

The N Star has a CR of 10.3:1 and sequantial port FI... still sounding boost friendly? A custom sbc you can set to whatever you want for CR and whatever FI setup you want.

N Star has a 90 degree cast aluminum block with cast iron cyl liners + aluminum heads 32v dohc boasting about 300HP and an equivilant amount of torque.. it was more of a high revving motor compared to the rest of the chevy v8 lineup.

You can have any combo with a custom built sbc (----, go for a 383 stroker) and I don't mind OHV that much, no timing belts to worry about breaking.

The pre-northstar caddys had kinda crossblended block that was an aluminum OHV 4.9 that looked like a direct halfbreed of a N Star/sbc.. wierd to say the least.

I might be wrong on this, but I **THINK** that the header design was your standard chevy O__OO__O style on the exhaust ports, I really doubt it was your isometric style headers like you'd see on an ole ford 302 (sbf). I can't remember, but if that is the case, finding turbo manifolds wouldn't be that hard, goto a parts store and compare exhaust manifold gaskets, that would be your key.

I can't tell ya what pistons they used, best bet for that would be the GM dealership.

Weigh it all out Tom, think about maybe going with the LT1/LS1 route (---- get a nice salvaged vette motor out of wrecked pre 97 caprice police cruiser, those bitches flew - that's what we used to do) Or just go with a custom built sbc, the options are limitless with a custom sbc job.

Or.. just build up that 3.8 v6 gen 2 motor that comes stock in half the fieros.

-ryan

Re:Northstar Engines
 

MMM turbo v8. I just bought a 88 LX 4cyl mustang, gonna swap in my 5.0 and turbo that soon. And i'll take plenty of pics as I go.

Re:Northstar Engines
 

Well I was thinking of an LS1 aswell. IDK if I can find a nice wrecked car with a engine that I could use. LS1s weight more I think as well. Aren't LS1s bigger too? IDK which engine would be better for power in the long run, after boosting and stuff. I am going to do more research tonight when I get home. I looked into the fiero engine as well, and people said that engine sucked and couldn't get it much past 500hp even with a large budget. What do u all think?

Thanks,

Tom

Re:Northstar Engines
 

Ya know I got to thinking about it, i think i was wrong on the head pattern for the 4.6 n star motor, it's most likely diff since DOHC vs OHV, but i'm prob right about the 4.9 caddy motor's head design.

Yes, the LS1 are all aluminum (well the ones you're looking at which will be in 95-97 or later GM sports cars), the wieght would be marginal difference, with some searching I might be able to find the exacts. The size should be marginal as well, but the fact that you can get so much aftermarket ---- for the LS1's if it don't fit, you can find an oil pan/distributor that would probably have clearance.

The LT1 ones we used to play with were cast blocks, Generation 3... tough motor.

The LS1 is similar to your basic SBC, but still some differences in contrast to a pre '86 block. I think the LS:1 has a CR of like 10:1 around 350 HP/350 torque, good revving motor. About the hardest thing you will run into doing a hybrid like that is you pretty much need a donor car since there is A LOT of ---- to cross over that you don't realize (and I'm only speaking out of reference for the LT1 swap out of a 305 in a silverado). But finding parts and finding specs would be a lot easier as compared the the northstar.. the whole thing would probably be easier on the wallet in the end with the LS1. I wouldn't pay more then a grand for a used running LS1/LT1 motor, the tricky part is getting the rest of the BS that has to go with it.

---- if you aren't on a budget, just find yourself a custom built raceblock aluminum sbc 350 and build a nice stroker motor, then you can do that custom FI turbo setup or turbo a carb if you want to (not as practical, but possible). I can give ya some twin turbo sbc links if ya want.. or do something new, get a custom "weld-els" manifold hooked up with quad T-25s or something, that would be fun to have a fast spooling quad turbo aluminum sbc, easily be in the 700HP range.

Let me know what ya think, don't forget pics!

Oh, and the 3.8 motors aren't crap, but 500hp would be about all you could get from it, I think a cyclone engine would be a direct bolt in for that car, which a bad ass motor found in the buick grand national/chevy cyclone s10.. I forget which turbo it ran but they were quick and now are rare.

-ryan

Re:Northstar Engines
 

Hey if I ever buy a ford, I want to get the same deal you got going on, only mustang body style I liked was 79-93 (headlights at least from an 87-93). What all is going to be required for the 302 swap? Obviously the motor mounts, probably the rear end (swap up from that shitty 4 lug nut rear to a nice 9" 5 lug nut).

You gonna do the transmission too? I know those cars had the borg warner T5's in them for the v8 models, but what about the 2.3L ones?

Just wondering how much of a project it was gonna be since those damn 4 cyl 87-93 mustangs are a dime/dozen.

-Ryan

Re:Northstar Engines
 

I know a little about these cars. The LS1(5.7l alu block c5 vette motor) is actually smaller(outside diameter) than the northstar. Check out v8archies.com ,they sell mount kits that put smallblocks into v6 fieros. Thats the LT1(5.7 iron block c4 vette). You should think about the ease of install and aftermarket support(parts everywhere)of getting any given motor into your car. The northstar is a very good motor and a few have been put into fieros but I've yet to see a manual trans fiero/northstar. The LT1 cars move nicely, and you don't have to worry about fuel management which is a nightmare with the northstar motor. You can build a 400hp LT1 for 2300$ easily, and tune it with a screwdriver. I hope this helps, and have fun. I've been dreaming about a V8 Fiero for 3-4 years now.

Re:Northstar Engines
 

THe Northstar Engine or the 3800SC will be the easiest to fit into a fiero. Remember that the Fiero Engine compartment along with the suspension (Struts in the back, multi-link in the front) is pretty much setup like a front engine of a FWD car. It's like a normal front-wheel drive car that you drive backwards with the seats to match. Pretty much any GM powertrain will fit into a Fiero as long as its from a FWD car. Good luck!

Re:Northstar Engines
 

Well I am just gonna check out what i can for the cheapest right now. I would love to get at least 350 but man if i could get a 500hp i would love it. But i have to start working like hell this summer. This sounds like a hard job. Fiero's are RWD, so i have to get a trans to fit that right, would it have to be a trans-axle, or only if i put it longitudal?

Thanks,
Tom

Re:Northstar Engines
 

I think your best bet would be the aftermarket support for the fieros, they have lots of kits and parts avail

while you are at it, you should hook up with a lambo widebody kit or something funky

Re:Northstar Engines
 

Check hot rod's web site. They had an article about a guy that builds northstar motors. He even has a blower kit.

Re:Northstar Engines
 

Like I said, check out V8archies.com They have alot of info on this subject that you need to read, and a lot of links. here is a link http://www.v8archie.com/v8fiero.htm Just thought I'd help b4 you try to re-invent the wheel and all. enjoy

Re:Northstar Engines
 

people are talking lots of ---- on this one. first of all there are sevral stock GM ecm's that can run that n* DIS system and control fueling. a tiny bit of wiring but nothing to drastic. as for the engine itself. its fiarly robost but id use a 94 up block there better quality using a squezze molding process that removes porosity.

pistons etc might be high compression but its a very good pentaroof style chambe and is known for easily resisting knck with proper spark/fuel tunning.

i wouldnt anticiate much trouble in running 8-10 psi of boost on it. however a turbo charged quad 4 would offer better power lighter wieght and les effort to fit and would keep the car from understerring. for that matter you could also turbo the existing 2.5 ohv engine and make good power unless you have a 60*v6 in there and those 2 can easily make some obnixous power as well if you know WTF your doing.

Re:Northstar Engines
 

I agree with the quad four comment. Awesome motor. 180 hp stock (w41 was 190), and with low compression pistons, better headgasket, 8psi, youll have a blast!

OR, go with a 2.4 LD9 ;) Same as above, with more reliability but 150hp, 155 ft lbs. There are a few cavies on here with that motor boosted and many on jbody.org. There's just something about the 2.4 that i love.

btw, WTF are you tryin to do, tear the pavement off the road!? 500 hp isnt good enough>?

Re:Northstar Engines
 

I like the "quad 4" it powered a 1990ish cutless sumpreme to a 150+ mph top speed in an old ass motortrend mag.

The 3.8L would be my choice. The Buick grand national engine can hold almost 600hp STOCK... STOCK !!!! ( the turbo trans-am that was powered by a GN motor is not only the fastest prodution transam ever built, but it had shorter cylinder heads to fit between the strut towers, but of course it was a pretty limited prodution )

And just to clarify the Cyclone S10 was powered by a 4.3L chevy motor, not a 3.8L buick motor. The 4.3L in the cyclone was far weaker than the Buick. Noless the cyclone still holds the recond for the fastest prodution truck built. ( lick my turbo powered balls dodge SRT-10 Ram!! )

The bad news is that GN motors aren't cheap or common. I was going to pay $1000 for a 80K mile one that was set to be installed in a mustang.

SSOOOO in the case of the ferio I'd say a GN motor with a VERY large turbo ( lag = power delay = tranny lives ).

The LS-1 is a sick bitch too, but its big $$$ too... How come GM comes up with great motors and kills them b/c they are greater then the vette.... I'd like to see a turbo6 in a vette, but the Z06 seems to be doing fine, haha .

Re:Northstar Engines
 

well for all out show and go an aluminum ecotec would be a better choice. and Mother GM has blessed this engine with light wieght a decent block and plenty of after market hp up parts. woo woo. either way id stick with a 4cylinder a v6-v8 = feiro not sterring worth shiit.

Re:Northstar Engines
 

Well this is gonna be my looooong term project, I want to make it look like a Porsche GT1 with my own customazations. Actually a V6 fiero can come stock, and a V8 only adds about 85lbs extra on average. So even if I was like 300 lbs it would stear the same almost. I will upgrade the brakes and the suspension so no real worry there. Well how much HP can i get a LT1 with mostly stock internals i would upgrade if i can find a nice price, but for now this is gonna be on the cheaper side. What about a nice tri-turbo, like two T-25's and maybe one quite large turbo for some nice top end. I know lag is also an issue but i as alot of HMT'ers say "You call it turbo lag, I call it burnout control." All I am saying is once i get moving i will be moving. Quadnie, where did u get you LT1's and any one where would be a nice place to find them. Any one have any suggestions to me, like where to get parts, any other things like that.

Thanks,
Tom

Re:Northstar Engines
 

a gt1 body kit, now you're talking.

I personally would go with v8 power, with some nice trick flow aluminum heads and weight saving here and there you should be alright.. you could always thow a fuel cell towards the very front of the car for weight distrobution (well maybe not in the very front, don't make it a Pento.. but I'm sure you'll figure it out).

The motors we found were the Gen2 LT1 blocks found in 94-96 caprice's with the police package (also the pimp impala SS's). My best friend's dad owned a good sized salvage yard and used to goto the state auto auctions every week in orlando and pick up wrecked police cruisers for a couple grand, strip the motor + tranny for personal use and let the heathans take whatever small parts they wanted from the lot. He then would throw those bad boys in full size (mid 90s) chevy trucks that would scream. I remember the hardest part of the conversion was the ------- wiring harness which had to be custom ordered/made from a place in texas (or CA i forget) then on top of that they were ALWAYS ON BACKORDER. The projects did take some time, but the man knew his ---- (used to race nascar back in the day) and would make one mean machine for us to play with.

The hard thing now would be finding a virgin (un canabalized) wrecked 94-96 police cruiser (or impala SS) to be a donor. Yes you can always go all out aftermarket for controlling the thing and other options but it was nice having the donor right there to pull parts off of.

My long term dream was to equip my sleeper volvo with an LT1, but the hassle of the electronics conversion, availability of the block, limitations on creativity has just shoved me into finding an ideal sbc block.. an all steel block would be fun to handle some high boost :o - They mostly came in the 327s but also a few were in the 350s.

I would seriously consider just picking a nice high nickel content (or find an all steel) sbc and just working that motor, make it a stroker or whatever you want. You can always add fuel injection management for about a grand that is data logging capable and very programmable for boost.. just might be cheaper to get a complete stand alone aftermarket setup versus messing with finding OEM (or cloned) corvette parts.

You can yeild as much HP as you want from any motor, ---- many "crate" specials roll with 500HP on pump gas.

Whatever route you want to do, let me know what motor you would like to pick, I will tell ya what I think about it.

-ryan

Re:Northstar Engines
 

I supose i will look for a LT1 from 93-98(i think) trans-am's, camaro's, and Impala's. The first thing is the engine, then suspension (which kinda happends the same time as the engine, then i will start making the fiberglass body work. Latly i have been using Rhino3D to design parts of the car. I haven't gotten to figure out the program that well but i am trying to teach my self with what little spare time i have. I also just picked up a book for fiberglass working. I guess for now i have to just look for different car's in my area and such for parts. Any comments would be appriciated.

Thanks,
Tom

Re:Northstar Engines
 

Hey, just looked around a bit, found some usefull info if you decide to hunt down an LT1..

First off, find a car that is pre LS1 (pre 97) Some LT1s surfaced in the early 90s, but that would mostly be in corvette bodys. Check for 94-96 Caddilac Fleetwood, Buick Roadmaster and of course your F-body cars in that year range.. We had like a '96 Trans Am in the shop with a six speed, it definately had the LT1 in it (I would assume they only mated the T-56 tranny to the LT1 block). I think the police edition cars just had a beefed up 4L60-E (computer controlled 700r4) auto transmision, but then again every light truck/passenger v8 automatic chevy since 1987 had the 700r4 (4L60) variant in it. I could go on and on about the 700r4 but that would have to be on a different thread ;)

There was also a 92-96 LT1 aluminum flavored block, but my guess is that would be under the vette hoods.

Think about this info, let me know.. like I said, if you aren't going to go with the LT1/LS1 block then we can talk about some good alternatives (which would be my choice in the matter).

I would not pay more then a grand for a running lower milage (under 100k) LT1, that's just what I've heard the guys who buy them on all those F-Body forums say.

-ryan

If anyone is interested here is a link to a video I put on Youtube a while back of my rear engine Northstar Mazda pickup

If anyone is interested here is a link I put on Youtube of my Northstar Mazda pickup.

YouTube - Rear Engine Mazda pickup with a turbocharged Cadillac Northstar

I remember some sandrails being featured in motor trend with turbo northstars in the 800hp range....prettysick stuff

the forum at
Fiero - Pontiac's Mid-Engine Sportscar
has numerous Northstar conversions and a couple of turbo N*s
im surprised no one has pointed you in that direction...

Let me google that for you

Excellent choice ! I have many Fiero web sites & connections of people who have installed about every conceivable engine / transmission combination. The Fiero Store has several Cadillac 4.9 and Norstars for sale. You may email me and I will send what ever I can to assist you in your project.:cool:

wow old thread back to life lol