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no longer smooth engine
i just start my engine ZC sohc vtec same as d16z6
egale Hbeam , vitara and super kit from FJT , acl bearing , block gurde, block work was done to make rods fit, piston to wall 0.004 inch i start the engine yesterday and i found that it no longer smooth engine and i thought the hi sound came from the head i adjust the lash ( 20 intake valves , 25 for the exhust valves ) but the sound of the engine still not smooth. is that natural ? and idea will be great |
Re: no longer smooth engine
Do you mean the engine SOUNDS noisy, or that it RUNS rough?
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Re: no longer smooth engine
wow i hope your not from an english speaking country. well if its not running smoothly go through all the normal checks, compression first to make sure everything is good. basically start over and try to locate whats bad. some more info would have helped a lot more.
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Re: no longer smooth engine
Originally Posted by RotaryGeek
wow i hope your not from an english speaking country.
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Re: no longer smooth engine
.004 will make your ---- sound like a diesel no dought
Its the story of a built engine... |
Re: no longer smooth engine
Diesel noises ftw.
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Re: no longer smooth engine
more info.
Originally Posted by Ravage70
.004 will make your ---- sound like a diesel no dought
Its the story of a built engine... .003 or .0035 would have been my choice. |
Re: no longer smooth engine
.003-.0035 is a bad idea for 400 whp. All the big power boys are running .006+ with years reliability.
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Re: no longer smooth engine
.003-.0035 is too tight? my SRPs recommend .002-.0025....is that no good?
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Re: no longer smooth engine
one man's opinion over 50+ ? ill take the 50+ even if the one man is JD. :4
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Re: no longer smooth engine
Here comes a ---- storm.
But there really isn't anything to worry about with some slap. So what if you have some excess blowby? You lose some power and have eggshaped cylinders, but the thing will hold together. |
Re: no longer smooth engine
Originally Posted by one2many
one man's opinion over 50+ ? ill take the 50+ even if the one man is JD. :4
Originally Posted by ryan89crx
.003-.0035 is too tight? my SRPs recommend .002-.0025....is that no good?
Just for shits and giggles, though, call up JE and tell them what SRP you have and ask for piston to wall for 400 whp. They won't tell you .002-.0025. I was told .0045 for my 85mm bore ~500 whp LS that won't see near the combustion pressure or thermal loading that a 400-450 whp D16 sees. The piston expands, and it has to go somewhere. Does yours go right up against the bore and slag itself, or is everything groovy? THink about what I just said, then open up a Helms and take a peek at stock piston-wall and ring end gap clearances. Now you know why stock pistons are the weak link... can you think of anyone who uses stock pistons with clearances loosened up like they do Vitaras? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that Ching Chong Meow piston company of China is not amking a better piston than OEM Honda... the people who buy the cheap Vitara are reaping the rewards of correctly building their engines (and of super low CR). |
Re: no longer smooth engine
i knew that worm/fuzzy sensation towards you was "normal." :-*
i see what your saying. with the new 75.5mm everyone seems to think that .003/.0035 is "optimal." the reason everyone had such a big gap was only b/c the pistons were 75mm and you were at the mercy of the block when it came to p2w clearance. only reason fjt runs ~.006 is b/c thats what he had. |
Re: no longer smooth engine
Originally Posted by one2many
only reason fjt runs ~.006 is b/c thats what he had.
Every single record holding highest power Vitara engine has had .006+ |
Re: no longer smooth engine
not so. taken from :1.
Originally Posted by fast2camciv
(linked here from h-t)
i was running .004 in my own personal build, since then i have assembled 4 more vitara blocks (all 75mm) with 2 being .004, one being .003, and another being .005. all of them perform very nicely (not a single one smokes or has exessive blow by) and i havent heard one motor that had any more slap than the others (wich leads me back to fjt's theory thats its not slap, that its the floating wrist pin making the noise) i just set up my personal gsr block last night with wiseco's and im running .0035. i personally like running .003-.004 on my turbo blocks. granted it probably wont see 200k but it will get me optimal performance for a good 30-40k before needing a rebuild...and by then i will be on to bigger and better things lol longevety of a motor is not as much a concern to me that it might be to others. hope that helps...btw jfk is running .008 on his (the most i have seen) and his is not strictly a drag car, at one point it was a dd... |
Re: no longer smooth engine
Originally Posted by Joseph Davis
SRP is a low silicon variant of JE. They don't expand as much as a normal forging, or for that matter a casting like the Vitara that gets thermally loaded up.
Just for shits and giggles, though, call up JE and tell them what SRP you have and ask for piston to wall for 400 whp. They won't tell you .002-.0025. I was told .0045 for my 85mm bore ~500 whp LS that won't see near the combustion pressure or thermal loading that a 400-450 whp D16 sees. The piston expands, and it has to go somewhere. Does yours go right up against the bore and slag itself, or is everything groovy? THink about what I just said, then open up a Helms and take a peek at stock piston-wall and ring end gap clearances. Now you know why stock pistons are the weak link... can you think of anyone who uses stock pistons with clearances loosened up like they do Vitaras? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that Ching Chong Meow piston company of China is not amking a better piston than OEM Honda... the people who buy the cheap Vitara are reaping the rewards of correctly building their engines (and of super low CR). the pistons arent super snug in the block, but they arent sloppy. i ran them before at this gap and they seemed fine. when i pulled them out, there were no marks on the skirts like the clearance was too tight. but then again it was probably only making 220hp... |
Re: no longer smooth engine
Originally Posted by Joseph Davis
My opinion is right in line with the majority of Vitara owners. ::)
SRP is a low silicon variant of JE. They don't expand as much as a normal forging, or for that matter a casting like the Vitara that gets thermally loaded up. Just for shits and giggles, though, call up JE and tell them what SRP you have and ask for piston to wall for 400 whp. They won't tell you .002-.0025. I was told .0045 for my 85mm bore ~500 whp LS that won't see near the combustion pressure or thermal loading that a 400-450 whp D16 sees. The piston expands, and it has to go somewhere. Does yours go right up against the bore and slag itself, or is everything groovy? THink about what I just said, then open up a Helms and take a peek at stock piston-wall and ring end gap clearances. Now you know why stock pistons are the weak link... can you think of anyone who uses stock pistons with clearances loosened up like they do Vitaras? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that Ching Chong Meow piston company of China is not amking a better piston than OEM Honda... the people who buy the cheap Vitara are reaping the rewards of correctly building their engines (and of super low CR). Just need to find a company that makes OE replacement pistons with floating pins. |
Re: no longer smooth engine
Originally Posted by Joseph Davis
Do you mean the engine SOUNDS noisy, or that it RUNS rough?
and my goal is 350-400 so i made my p2w .004 so my question now is - is that sound is natural with that p2w clearance ? -is that good clearance is good for 350-400 whp ? |
Re: no longer smooth engine
Good point about the wrist pins making noise... I've considered that to be what I think is my piston slap. One of the first things an older engine builder asked me when I let him listen to my engine cold was "Were the wrist pins pressed in or do they have little clips?" He told me floating wrist pins are noisy, and I shouldn't worry about slap because there's not much you can do about it anyway, and it doesn't really matter. That guy has a built Galaxie and Torino, and he's had a ton of other projects too. As I said, Diesel noises ftw.
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Re: no longer smooth engine
I thought fast2camciv was running .006, and is where I based part of my claim. That is the post I was thinking of, but I pwned myself misremembering the details. hany, it sounds like your engine isn't unusual, it should be fine.
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Re: no longer smooth engine
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Re: no longer smooth engine
The aluminum sounding tick in the background is normal, but that louder noise I would say no isn't normal.
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Re: no longer smooth engine
i dont really see how floating wrist pins will cause a noise that sounds like piston slap. There isnt really and side load on them that would make them move back and forth with any force so i dont know how they would make noise. My motor and chris' both have floating pins and dont make any noises that sound like piston slap.
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Re: no longer smooth engine
Originally Posted by ghettoturbo
i dont really see how floating wrist pins will cause a noise that sounds like piston slap. There isnt really and side load on them that would make them move back and forth with any force so i dont know how they would make noise. My motor and chris' both have floating pins and dont make any noises that sound like piston slap.
The solution to piston slap is running 30 psi. |
Re: no longer smooth engine
I don't think what Tom (the old dude I was talking about) meant that the pins were moving side to side, but that there was clearance between the pin and the rod and clearance between the pin and piston which is causing some noise. I'd like to see more research done on that.
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Re: no longer smooth engine
that chic in your avitar is hella sexy
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Re: no longer smooth engine
sorry i cant see sigs on my phone, just the name and there post. no time/date, no post count, no pictures. pretty basic. but i get it, he isnt a newbs and just needs some help. didnt flame him but i didnt try to get some better info out of him.
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Re: no longer smooth engine
from reading everyone elses posts, i would say its not something to be really worried about, but worth keeping an eye on. i guess with vitaras you just have to have a little bit of experience to get the right p2w clearance. someone should make a reliable chart an post it in a sticky. pretty useful info.
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Re: no longer smooth engine
FJT said once said that he recommends a p2w clearence of .001 for every 100 hp your shooting for. so if its 400 your after then go with .004. not sure if that is correct info just posting up what he had said before.
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Re: no longer smooth engine
Originally Posted by TorganFM
I don't think what Tom (the old dude I was talking about) meant that the pins were moving side to side, but that there was clearance between the pin and the rod and clearance between the pin and piston which is causing some noise. I'd like to see more research done on that.
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Re: no longer smooth engine
Originally Posted by TorganFM
The aluminum sounding tick in the background is normal, but that louder noise I would say no isn't normal.
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Re: no longer smooth engine
when you say, .006 P2W clearance... we are talking inches, not mm, correct?
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Re: no longer smooth engine
Originally Posted by danz
when you say, .006 P2W clearance... we are talking inches, not mm, correct?
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Re: no longer smooth engine
HMT is overrun with faggot newbs.
Xeno should adopt some policy to stop these ------s before this place becomes turbod16, like everyone thinks it's going to. |
Re: no longer smooth engine
Originally Posted by wafflesincars
HMT is overrun with faggot newbs.
Xeno should adopt some policy to stop these my african american brothers before this place becomes turbod16, like everyone thinks it's going to. are you calling yourself african american? you fail. |
Re: no longer smooth engine
No you fail for even considering the fact that we could have been talking .00x mm, and for bringing up a dead thread. You know how ------- tight of a tolerance .001 mm is?
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Re: no longer smooth engine
Originally Posted by danz
im sure hes happy making money! its called being smart and successful.
are you calling yourself african american? you fail. Eat ---- and die. |
Re: no longer smooth engine
YOu can put your piston to wall clearance to .001 or .006 and you will get the exact same "dieselish" sound. The sound is not exactly piston slap but due to the floating wrist pin.
I have customers running small clearances(.003) and others running as much as .008 and both setups sound the same. I ran .006 with absolutelly no problems and no blow by.. JFK78 ran .008 on his setup and he got 443whp and 10 sec runs..engine is still alive and running after more than a year.. If it was trully piston slap one of 2 things would happen. 1- your sleeves will be damaged, 2- your pistons will brake..you will have excessive blow by, compression lost etc... |
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