more boost = same trap speed?.....FIXED....11's inside
 

went to track today w/ some slicks, used the pre-loading technique(which worked very well once i got it down). there was hardly anyone at the strip and i got to make 20 passes, which was a nice change from the ricer fri and sat nights of getting 4-5 passes all night.

here's the problem, i've gone from 12-13psi to 20-21psi and haven't really picked up any trap speed

old best w/ 225/50/15 BFG's.........................12.62 @ 113 @ 12-13psi.........2.1 60'
today's best w/ 22x8x15 slicks.......................12.40 @ 115 @ 20-21psi.........1.86 60'

recently i've changed cams, got gm 3bar working, and pulled some timing from the higher boost areas. street tuned w/ WBo2, bre, ostrich.....approx 11.0 AFR's @ 20-21psi. feels good, pulls ok, but the butt dyno is telling me i fail............i really need some dyno time for fine tuning.

brief rundown:
crx hf 2180lbs w/ me in it
y8 bottom/z6 head/y8 int.......scat, wiseco, bisi 1.2 cam
t3/t4b turbonetics h-trim compressor, 3" turbo back, no cat or muff..........MI emissions testing FTW
walbro 255, dsm 450's...........maybe time to swap in the bigger inj???........not leaning out so i wouldn't think so

maybe i just suck at cars and need a "pro" to tune it for me

Re: more boost = same trap speed?
 

you answered your own ?

Re: more boost = same trap speed?
 

how hot are the IAT's getting?

Re: more boost = same trap speed?
 

not sure, can this data be monitored w/ a datalogger? running OBD0 stilll, what can be done to check it? resistance check after a pass?

Re: more boost = same trap speed?
 

Have you ruled out the obvious like suspension/driving/clutch?

Re: more boost = same trap speed?
 

suspension should be ok, i run omni power drag rears, DZ/tokico blues up front, every bushing is energy/prothane, jimfab tracbars, alignment is in check, clutch is brand new as of 1-2 months ago, not slipping or at least doesn't feel like it

im sure my driving could be somewhat better, maybe faster gear shifts, ran pretty consistent 12.4-12.6 all day.

Attachment 14808



to 88dx.........maybe IC is too small?......i always check it after a pass and it feels cool on the outlet side.....idk

Attachment 14809

Attachment 14810

Re: more boost = same trap speed?
 

bigger slicks :)

Re: more boost = same trap speed?
 

i know that.........in the plans for next season

why trap speeds not getting any better w/ more boost?..........thats the real question

Re: more boost = same trap speed?
 

how much are you spinning off the line what do your 60ft times look like on low boost and high boost

Re: more boost = same trap speed?
 

60' times are listed at the top, low and high psi

spins like crazy w/ BFG's, lots of throttle feathering

hardly any spin off the line w/ slicks and preload, felt good, best launches i think my car has ever seen





why do my traps suck??? even spinning off the line i should see an increase w/ more power.......right??

Re: more boost = same trap speed?
 

Mixing Y stuff with Z stuff suspects that part of your problem is timing. Is it running hot at all? Did you have the head/block decked before? 11.0 is pretty damn rich even for that level.

How bout posting some logs? I highly suspect timing (mechanical and ignition) is your problem.

Re: more boost = same trap speed?
 

Yes thats a big NO, NO. y does not like anything but y; unless you really know how to get it going.

Re: more boost = same trap speed?
 

Y7 crank in my z6 motor. >:D

Re: more boost = same trap speed?
 

Lol but you know how to set it up ;)

Re: more boost = same trap speed?
 

y8 block pretty much the same as a z6, right? except for few diffs like knock sens, oil pump/main seal housings, oil holes in crank, etc. still basically the same bore/stroke. i'm running wiseco z6 pistons so the comp height should match up w/ the z6 head.

it does get hot........not overheat.........intermittenly.....if its over 80* outside and i cruise the highway for more than 15-20min at 80mph(3500-4k rpm), temp will creep slighty and fluctuate from 1/3 (normal mark) to approx 1/2. OR after making 2-3 hotlaps at the strip it will heat up after i let out at the boards, raising rpms usually brings temps back to normal.

head and block were both decked last spring when the engine was assembled, and checked again for straightness when torn down mid-season to replace HG in attempt to cure mystery overheat.

ignition timing is set to 16* using an adjustable light at the single mark on crank pulley(w/ service connector jumpered). i have an adjustable cam gear and both cam/crank timing have been set to TDC.........marks line up at block/crank sprocket..........cam was set to TDC using single mark @ 7 o'clock posistion inner cover, then cam gear loosened and adjusted to take up slack and keep both cam/crank at TDC.

i feel confident that the mech/ign timing is correct, not so sure about timing in .bin file

sorry i dont have any way to log, or i'd be more than willing to share. i have an ECU that is fried w/ a logger hookup installed, can i transfer that to my ECU and if so, what software do i need?....something that works in conjuction w/ BRE or TE?........or separate program all together?

Re: more boost = same trap speed?
 

Y8 crank pulley mark is not 16* it's 12* IIRC, check a shop manual to make 100% sure.

Re: more boost = same trap speed?
 

using the center of the three marks on the y8 crank pulley would give me 12*............using the single mark on the y8 crank pulley w/ a timing light set to 16*, would give me the 16* that is specified for the z6 head, since it is for the most part a z6 eng, even though the block is y8.

what is IIRC?

Re: more boost = same trap speed?
 

If I recall correctly

I hate adjustable timing guns, but what you're doing makes sense. I still don't trust the mech timing though with mixing and matching parts, I would not be surprised if you wind up needing a cam gear.

Re: more boost = same trap speed?
 

why would i need a cam gear?

already have an adjustable gear for a z6 cam/head

if i were mixing it up w/ z6 head/y8 cam or vice versa i could see the need for matching y8 or z6 cam gear


i dont think the mixing that i've done is anything too crazy.........im bout 98.3% sure similar setups have been run.





really curious about the IAT temps................will the ECU pull timing if it sees temps out of range?


if it would help i can prob post a screen shot of ign tables or the .bin file

Re: more boost = same trap speed?
 

that crx is sexy!!! :y

Re: more boost = same trap speed?
 

def a tuning problem. and you should be traping way higher with a crx and that setup. I got a stock ls at 13 psi with no tune and that out runs you and I rock a 93 hatch. so you under weight me even. the guys are right either timiing or your blowing a ton of hot air.

Re: more boost = same trap speed?
 

ls on boost is prob gonna have a bit more torque than my turbod........but thats beside the point

car weighs in at 2k lbs w/o driver

i know every car is diff but is there and "average" or "typical" range for ign timing in boost at higher rpm's?


thank you.

$30 worth of outdoor lawn furniture rattle cans and bout 5 hours on a fri night..........looks good enough for me

Re: more boost = same trap speed?
 

Depends on what program you're running.

Figure around the 10* mark for starters.

Re: more boost = same trap speed?
 

at 21psi im at 11-12* in the higher r's..........BRE bin file is attached, if anyone cares to check it out.

a few theories i have:

1.boost leak.....everything is sealed up tight, piping is secure, throttle shaft possibly? turbo housing itself?

2. IC too small, restricting flow?

3.turbo itself is not sized well for engine........looking for comp map, but turbonetics site is undergoing changes

Re: more boost = same trap speed?
 

This is important.

You set the crank and cam for TDC, but did you loosen and adjust the cam gear with full tension on the tensioner?

The mystery overheating suggests retarded timing, assuming you have already ruled out the basic tstat, rad. cap, etc.

1. Very likely, small leaks (throttle shaft, etc.) wont have that much effect. Make a pressure test setup to be sure.

2. what IC inlets/outlets, how large?

3. At what rpm does it hit full boost? Too bad you dont have a dyno graph at this point it would help diagnosis.

Re: more boost = same trap speed?
 

cam/crank were both set to TDC w/o belt, cam gear loosened, belt installed, tightend tensioner, tightened cam gear...............in that order

i have replaced t-stat w/ new Honda stat, water pump, HG(cometic+ARPs), has Fluidyne 1/2 rad, 10" fan........which was just replaced after being suspected and finally failing (locked up)...........even have custom gravity fed overflow setup.

1.boost leak check will be done ths weekend

2. 2.5" in/out

3. around 5-5.5k, depending on gear. had a dyno graph for the 10-12 psi range, but that doesn't really apply here. independent shop i used to work for had a mustang dyno, was a nice fringe benefit, but i left to go work at a Honda dealer.............what did i do? :1


thanks for the ideas and help so far

Re: more boost = same trap speed?.....FIXED....11's inside
 

i'll try to keep this short, figured you guys deserved an update


got some free dyno time from the guy i used to work for, so i pumped in some 110 and said ---- it........MORE TIMING!!
problem was in the tune, added bout 8-9* of timing to the boost maps......which left me at approx 20-22* in the upper rpms.
gained about 50hp on a mustang dyno.........end results were 281hp/230ish ftlbs @ 19psi...........kinda low, but it was on a mustang.
i would have cranked that ---- to NOG, but i maxed out my EBC......need new WG spring, have low psi spring right now


end result.........


first pass at the track......11.98 @ 120
backed it up next pas........11.86 @120

went to the track the next weekend w/ some cooler air and made about 10 good passes.......all in the high 11, 12.0, 12.1 range @ 120-122 mph

personal best to date.......11.74 @ 122

taller tires and more boost on tap for next season, could only cut 1.8 60' with those tires, and 4th gear is bout done for by the time i hit the boards

thanks again for all the input nig nogs..............she's finally hittin the numbers i was looking for, well its getting there anyway