HELP! advice on turbo for LS
 

I have not been on here in quite a while but can usually turn to HMT for advise

I have a turbo LS and am running an Innovative GTS61 @14lbs that I got off a friend for super cheap but its got to much lag for what I want. I am looking to make a little over 300whp, spool fairly quickly and be fun on the street. I like going out on back roads not the strip.

Any help would be appreciated, I have owned a few boosted cars but am retarded dumb at knowing compressor sizes etc. I just dont want to take a wild guess when buying a turbo

thanks!

Re: HELP! advice on turbo for LS
 

cdm t3t4 works great!


10 pounds easy around 4500 rpm and pulls hard!

i rocked mine at 16 pounds for a few weeks when i had wg issues and it was realy sweet did som really dirty 3rd on the gsr trans

Re: HELP! advice on turbo for LS
 

+1 for a cheap ass t3/t4 off ebay. Had mine for over a year now, and spools pretty good. Around 3500-4300 full boost with no cat and 2 1/2 exhaust.

Re: HELP! advice on turbo for LS
 

rock a hx35 and be able to support 500hp. spool low 4000's

Re: HELP! advice on turbo for LS
 

Turning up the boost makes the car feel a lot less laggy. If you are on twisties, likely the turbo is too big as you can't crank the boost up as high as you need in that environment to keep it from spooling down between shifts.

Avoid the china turbos on eBay. I've yet to see a good one, and every one who praises them typically has oil all throughout their intake tract or huge amounts of thrust play and have no clue. :1

Re: HELP! advice on turbo for LS
 

If it was a stright-line weekend car I'd say join the bandwagon and get a 57trim.

But since you are one of the .0000001% of Honda owners who actually gives a crap about boost/throttle response, your needs are much less ordinary. 300whp can be achieved, even on an LS, with a 60trim T3. However, you'll need a little more boost than you may want if its not a built bottomend. A 50trim t3/t04e would be a better choice with a stock motor is you want to play it safe. You'll need more boost than a big turbo for that whp, but thats a benifit not caviot if you're still below 20psi.

The people who say either turbo isn't enough for 300whp are the fools still married to their stock MAP sensor. Some people will change EVERYTHING except a simple little sensor. Pushing a small turbo that fits your current goals is like graguating from dirty hookers to professional call girls - its a whole different world.

Re: HELP! advice on turbo for LS
 

with the ebay ramhorn my buddy had his garrett t3/t04e .63/60 to spool about 3k making a full 15psi by 4k on a bone stock ls 2.5 in exhaust. noticed with my car having a bigger turbo was always fun for the highway but i really did miss the instant spool of a z6 with an ihi turbo.

Re: HELP! advice on turbo for LS
 

If you could come across a EVO 3 turbo (aka the big 16g) it would be a well matched turbo for you and actually spool fast enough to do something. It shouldn't really be confused with the 16g as the big 16g has a lot more potential for high boost and high hp 1.8L-2.4L engines.

Either that or try to find a Borg Warner k26-2 from a early 80s Porsche.

Re: HELP! advice on turbo for LS
 

That's also a decent turbo too. Make sure you were to get a 0.63AR hot side and not a 0.48 though. On that power goal the small AR turbine housing would start to cause a lot of exhaust manifold pressure.

But really, crunch some numbers and take a look at a big 16g and a k26-2, they are a much better fit.

Re: HELP! advice on turbo for LS
 

The size of the turbine wheel make a much larger difference than the AR of the matched housing. There are five sizes, which are you referring to? THe smaller sizes will spool akin to a 16G, big or small. The middle of the road stage three will have any of the 1.8 liter Hondas spooling at 2500 rpms.


I really doubt that the K26, which isn't a Borg even if they have since been bought by Borg fifteen years after being produced, is going to be that great. All of the aircooled car's turbos were sized large so they didn't retain a lot of heat.

Re: HELP! advice on turbo for LS
 

A friend of mine used that turbo on a D16a1. I actually bought it from him for $50...it needs to be rebuilt. I would say that it was a great turbo for that engine. Car would light the tires up in third gear.

Re: HELP! advice on turbo for LS
 

I had one in unknown shape, if it wouldn't work it would take a rebuild easily. I passed it onto a guy who was supposed to rebuild it for a budget project, never saw or heard from him again so I guess he punked out and sold it on eBay.

Re: HELP! advice on turbo for LS
 

I know the k26 isn't exactly a perfect turbo either - this is why it's home made turbo right? The solutions aren't always perfect but they almost always work.

OK, I'm sorry, it's a KKK product, isn't it? I got used to so many people calling it a BW, I never looked completely into it. My apologies.

A friend of mine has a k26-2 he salvaged off a wrecked Porsche that he put on a d16y8 and it is an awesome setup. He gets into 12 psi so quickly from 3000RPM I would have sworn is was a 14B. He is a really good tuner though and he put a lot of time into his maps to get them to make the turbo do that.

And yes, the t3-t4 50 trim (yes, with the typical stage 3 turbine) is a great turbo too, I wouldn't deny that for a second. I have one on my b18b1 and it works very nicely. I will admit it should probably spool sooner, but I am still moving forward with the tune and advancing timing in the right places to make the turbo light up faster. With my setup it starts spooling at 2800rpm, but with a bit more timing it should do 2500 no problem.

Just comparing to what I've seen from previous setups, the t3/t4s just don't come alive as fast as the k26 and the big 16g.

I'll be honest, I've probably only been in a handful of t3/t4 setups and only one k26 and one big 16g setup. Just comparing the t3/t4s to the other two setups, they were all slightly more laggy but made great boost right past the redline. Just my observations though.

Joseph Davis, you do seem to know a lot more about this sort of thing though, if you could elaborate a little more on where I may be going wrong, that would be helpful.

Re: HELP! advice on turbo for LS
 

No, actually, used turbos typically fail. Click the Turbo Projects link on the left hand menu bar and notice how the projects started out strapping any old thing to a motor and graduated to strapping any old thing plus a new turbo to a motor. You eventually learn that mechanical devices that spin 150K+ rpms and glow red hot don't last forever.

Advancing timing won't hasten spool, all that does is spends more of the combustion pressure across the piston (right up until it is wasted when you reach detonation) which results in less expansion of exhaust across the turbine. Google anti-lag.

Best thing to do if you want spool is pick the correct turbo, and build the correct manifold. The latter is harder than the former, and sometimes you have to see two dozen setups before you start to get an idea of what one particular engine likes.

The spool times you describe for the K26 on a D16 are what .50 T3/T04E on D16 will do, typically log manifold setups.


The big 16G is a spoolfest. Hitchhikkr has one on his LS, it made 10 psi at 1000 rpms. You had to pedal it to keep it from making over 20 psi before 3000 rpms or it would compressor surge badly. The internal gates on the things are formed of compressed mule ---- (actually, all internal gates are) and would taper from 24-25 psi torque peak at 3800 rpms down to 12 psi. He made 242 wtq at 3800 and 238 whp at 6400-ish, but the car was insanely driveable and leapt forward anytime the gas pedal was depressed. I would have loved to see the car with an external gate.

Look, you are a bright guy and I like the way you present yourself. I'm an ---- retentive geek who has to correct every punctuation error he sees or else I overdose on OCD meds trying to keep from freaking out. Don't take anything I post as being down on you, in any regard. And you don't have to thank me, or agree with me. I'm just a guy, like everybody else here. I may know a good bit, but anyone else my age who geeks out on cars does too, whoopty-----.

Re: HELP! advice on turbo for LS
 

Ah I don't take any offense to you, I know you're just trying to explain it to me as I'm sure you've explained it over 1000 times before to people. And I know it's irritating, but thanks for doing it one more time :P

I'm just one of those people that knows enough to be convincing, but enough to be dangerous ;D I'm sure if I've been doing this for longer than a year, I would be a bit more insightful, but I'm not... so I'll let you do that.

Re: HELP! advice on turbo for LS
 

Wow last time I checked this there was one response lol

Here is the turbo that I am thinking about getting:

T3TO4E

COMPRESSOR SPECS:

flow: 50 lbs/min 640cfm

.60 A/R HOUSING

57 TRIM WHEEL

TURBINE SPECS:

.48 A/R HOUSING

STAGE 3 WHEEL


I am not nessacarily looking for boost at 2500 rpm seeing as when I take my car out and beat on it it rarely drops taht low but with the GTS61 if I didnt take it to redline it would fall out of boost :( so some thing in between those two would be great. I am not scared of running higher boost also if I have to, dave lee tunes my car so I trust him when it comes time to crank it up lol Also I am looking to buy a new turbo.


Just to give a clue of what I have to work with:
SLS ramhorn
Tial 38mm WG
3" mandrel bent exhaust
3bar map


PS the ITS GTS61 is up for grabs in the f/s section

Re: HELP! advice on turbo for LS
 

Look at the head/cam setup the 16g's were designed to work with, then look at a Honda. Then run the basic ex/inducer sizes of a stg1 Garrett against the usual crap you get with a 16g, THEN look at the number & angle of the fins. ------- then look at the conversion numbers stacking MHI housing CMx numbers against Garrett A/R numbers.

If you want a shortcut, read: The 16g is intended to flow well for a 2.0L's midrange and spool like hell with a low-overlap cam. A Stg1 garrett trurbine isn't ANY worse, nor is the .48ar housing in that respect. I can introduce you guys to a member running 400whp through a clipped Stg1 turbine if you want. The Stg3 has also been around the block concerning 500whp setups. Overkill is overkill, bandwagoneers just never catch on. If you want it new, the 16g might be a better deal, since nobody really sells stg1 stuff new.


Cliffs: 16g [exhaust] in its most common form is very similar to a stg1 .48ar setup, and a 50trim t04e is slightly larger than a big 16g. No Honda person would ever know, since 99% never attempt to push a turbo or a "restrictive" exhaust setup.

Re: HELP! advice on turbo for LS
 

That's not a Honda thing, most cars aren't capable of pushing a turbo to it's limits due to it's setup. Lack of MAP/MAF, injector or fuel pump or lines, ignition system, they came with defective worthless puling internal wastegates, etc.

I've only had nine cars I could take to the limits of the turbo. Three of them will be at Shadyside Dragway in Boiling Springs, SC, on March 7th. You should roll down.

Re: HELP! advice on turbo for LS
 

Hmm so any oppnions on the turbo im thinking about getting? was thinking maybe bigger hot side

Re: HELP! advice on turbo for LS
 

See what you get for being greedy and buying that turbo out from under me mike ;-) Lol

Now sell it to me for what you got it for!

I like the to4e 57 trim's you posted above, they spool quick and always make decent power.

get the 63 exhaust.

Re: HELP! advice on turbo for LS
 

Around what RPM would I hit full boost with the .63?


Im looking for a fun car on the street/windy roads not a drag car...... but I also dont want to have massive traction problems Also if it matters I have a GSR trans


Any one have compressor maps for the T3TO4E 57 trim w/ .48 a/r and the 57 trim w/ .63 a/r

Re: HELP! advice on turbo for LS
 

I have proof that Randy is fat, likes bannanas and is totally gay...


And MIke....your not much better with your little ------- pirouette on the stool just before laughing queerly after being accosted by a self admitted chubby bannana lover...

Man that was the best 100 LBS of medical N20 evarRRrrRrRRRRR


http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f4..._Picture-1.jpg



:-*



LOL

Re: HELP! advice on turbo for LS
 

Re: HELP! advice on turbo for LS
 

LOL wrong Mike douche canoe but thats a pretty funny vid always knew randy was a homo hahaha

Re: HELP! advice on turbo for LS
 

----. ANd yesd Randy is gay

Re: HELP! advice on turbo for LS
 

Im gona push my turbo beyond the max on my ls......lol


Im almost done doing my 3" down pipe and cut out. But im running a To4e 40 trim with a .70 ar exhaust side. 20 lbs max on the turbo and 7500rpms puts me right here
http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h1...0trim20psi.jpg


And when I shift Its gona put me right in the sweet spot... This is at 5000rpms
http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h1...20psi5000k.jpg

Re: HELP! advice on turbo for LS
 

lol yea this is tall skinny mike joel and josh buddy not short chubby intec mike hahaha

lol