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Electronic Boost Controller
ok i had a couple of questions and i would like to get some feedback from some people.
I am currnently building a digital boost controller/gauge. which design do you like best. The Apexi Style, where it sits on top the dash somewhere.. The Blitz,hks,greddy style that is in a slim style box you can mount in a din slot etc.. or a gauge style that is mounted in a pod that would have a couple of buttons. Im leaning toward the gauge style for the first run. Innovates XD-16 is a what i think i would go for with 2 buttons to controll the boost. https://www.innovatemotorsports.com/images/web1.jpg heres apexi http://www.apexi-usa.com/img/img_pro...elctroncis.jpg and then blitz http://www.blitz-uk.co.uk/images/sbcspecs.jpg Also does color really matter? Its looking like i would be able to sell them for $175-200 How does the price sound? It would be backed with like a 2 year warrenty. Another question is why or why wouldnt you buy it from me... ex. Name brand... new company.. Dont like the looks... stuff like that. I know mbc are cheap and easy to make /use. But Since i program microcontrollers everyday i figured id actually make something cheaper then the name brand companies, that are just as good. If you guys could give me some feed back id appriciate it.. Thanks Brian Also. i am currently working on making some other products like Wideband A/F controller and guage, and something similar to the apexi safc. Except for a buttload cheaper. |
Re: Electronic Boost Controller
any chance of some free samples bein passed out for testing?
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Re: Electronic Boost Controller
this is possible... free.. or verrrrrry cheap samples could be passed out.. but i need to know some input? I mean i am directing this to you guys to see what you like... the more the input the better i can develop this thing.
actully free or verry cheap samples is a good idea.. because you guys can test and verify they work for me ;D but i would like some input to get to the next stage thanks brian |
Re: Electronic Boost Controller
i like the apexi if you make them can i get one of the samples please? and when will you come out with them. seems like a cool idea.
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Re: Electronic Boost Controller
I would prefer a blitz style box personally. It's just a lot easier to mount something like that instead of a round gauge or big flat panel apexi thing.
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Re: Electronic Boost Controller
I prefer the gauge style as it eliminates one thing to be installed in the interior.
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Re: Electronic Boost Controller
Preferrence in style: Bullshit question. As long as you can view it and use it, the boost controller will sell itself
Cons: Electronic boost controllers are unreliable piles of piss. Name ONE that works correctly - point made. Not that I don't think it could be done, but no one making them gets anything correct beyond the slick packaging and ad campaign. I suggest sending a test sample to AbaZ (Jeff Frank) who owns this site, he will review it and fairly report on it. I'd say I could as well, but I'd carry less weight around here than he would. |
Re: Electronic Boost Controller
I agree that blitz style is easiest to mount, but function is mandatory over form here at HMT. As JD said, give em to the mods as they will carry the most weight and are the ones who would not just be tryin to get a free Boost controller and never even report on it. Good luck with the project.
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Re: Electronic Boost Controller
I love your avatar. If we ever meet, I am buying you a beer for that little oven stunt.
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Re: Electronic Boost Controller
What features is this going to carry. I am going to be test the TullosTech unit. For the features it boasts it compared to a 600.00 Unit.
Also who care what it look like. Performance, adjustablity, and feature are the notes that should be taken care of instead of looks. |
Re: Electronic Boost Controller
Originally Posted by Joseph Davis
Preferrence in style: Bullshit question. As long as you can view it and use it, the boost controller will sell itself
Cons: Electronic boost controllers are unreliable piles of piss. Name ONE that works correctly - point made. Not that I don't think it could be done, but no one making them gets anything correct beyond the slick packaging and ad campaign. I suggest sending a test sample to AbaZ (Jeff Frank) who owns this site, he will review it and fairly report on it. I'd say I could as well, but I'd carry less weight around here than he would. I would probably perfer to have some admins test or someone very knowledgable with there cars. Why are they unreliable piles of piss?? Just to much spiking and unconstant pressure? Any Detailed information on why theres are bad would help a bunch, not just ripping on them.. thanks. I am going to be doing some field testing with my prototype here soon, ive already filled 1/2 the memory of the controller with algorithms and steps to get this thing smooth. Gonna do some tweaking while its actually in the field then it should be ready for review. |
Re: Electronic Boost Controller
Originally Posted by dastinker8
Why are they unreliable piles of piss?? Just to much spiking and unconstant pressure?
Any Detailed information on why theres are bad would help a bunch, not just ripping on them.. thanks. Greddy Profec series are actually quite stupid... electronic two stage boost controllers, what's the point in that??, none of which ever work right and were plagued with inconsistent boost control and spike problems, except for the original and wildly successful Profec B which they replaced a year ago with the Profec B "spec II" which is a pile of crap. Let's not even get into the E-01 big LCD screened pimp shizzle boost spikefest. HKS Rebic IV was a similar experience, I had it on and off my car, on and off GVR-4 #366/2000, and on and off a friend's Impulse RS in a matter of days due to annoyance value. Junk, inconsistent. I haven't used anything else, have hopes for the Tullos unit, and for Blundar's vaporware AVR-powered unit, but if and when I recommend boost controllers it's pretty much (in no particular order) DIY MBC, TurboXS two stage, and whatever the damn thing all my Mitsu friends sport that looks like a cigarette lighter knob that you twist and is sub $100. All MBCs. Good luck to you, there is NO REASON why this can't be done correctly with a microcontroller, but for some reason nobody can get it right. If you are an average intelligent guy, and spend an extra fourteen seconds beta testing it, you will be a millionaire by this time next year... |
Re: Electronic Boost Controller
Best thing for you is to be able to create a good reliable product, packaging doesn't matter. If you have a product that performs well and beats the competitions price, you're name and reputation will follow. I would probably buy one after I've heard enough good reviews on it. Only hesitation would be that you are a new company, and there is no guarantee even with the warranty since your company might fold and a warranty wouldn't be worth crap then.
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Re: Electronic Boost Controller
Alright thanks.. sounds like all of them are overly complex and not very accurate.
Im trying to make this very simple and easy to use. Display will conist of the boost guage... Number display(psi,bar,hg selectable) and maybe a bar graph then there will be up/down buttons to change the desired boost, thats about it. Looks like the biggest issue is getting it to work consistantly and accurately, which i will be spending lots of time testing. I think i will just put it in a small box, then later in the future get it to the different styles. I am using temperature compensated sensors so i dont think ill have a problem with temps.. The valves im using are Industrial strength and are effecient down to the 0 degree C. Other than that its just programming to get the controller to act right. Any other questions concerns with electronic controllers that i need to know or should add or remove.. THanks Brian |
Re: Electronic Boost Controller
Nope, sounds good so far.
Keep it simple and modular for now... you can add on extra features in the future, for the people who insist on having a $$$ dildo, and get a slice of that market too. Just make sure it has half-assed baro (elevation!) and temp calibrations... nobody minds a psi or two variance since that's the best she'll do actuating a crude mechanical control valve like the modern wastegate. |
Re: Electronic Boost Controller
yeah temps already done in the sensor, and im using absolute sensors so i have to read the baro at startup, only problem is if you first start your car then drive down or up a couple thousand feet you might need to restart the car or else you might be off a little.
Also what do you guys think about a SAFC.. similar to the apexi.. except completely hidden... no display.. maybe a couple leds.. It is programmed by a computer, and you can tune it with a computer. I am currently writing the software for it i will post up some pics of it to show you what i mean.. Instead of the 250 dollar apexi mine will be like 100 if that. Thanks Brian |
Re: Electronic Boost Controller
Before you go quoting prices, have you ever manufactured your own electronics before?
Talk to badbiki of www.bikirom.com, he's a bright young ---- like yourself, but when he went to have his USB daughterboards mass produced... last minute parts selections, revisions, etc, bumped up the prices a bit. Not even mentioning the time to get a couple prototypes and thoroughly test them. Best to set a target range until you know fer sure dude. $100-180 target, etc. |
Re: Electronic Boost Controller
No trust me my prices are very close to what i would be able to sell for. I have been researching this for a while. I have taken apart alot of the name brand stuff and priced parts. There ---- is marked up over 200 percent for the actual components inside. This is why i have decided to try and step into this market. Usually a well layed out design and lots of research you dont have your price bumped UP when you mass produce.. Usually it goes down significantly. Granite your prolly right .. i was just giving a simple number that i approximated. I will def give me details when i get close to finish. Hopefully i can get the price down even from that, depending on quantity. I have like 4 projects going i will keep updating and trying to get responses.. i will post pictures of some software ive started stuff like that. Thanks for the feedback
Brian |
Re: Electronic Boost Controller
http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/9885/ballz18qz.jpg
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/555/ballz28lr.jpg http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/483/ballz35kr.jpg Here is the basic software for the SAFC im building. Its not done yet.. Eventually i will be able to have an autotune... Racemode.. and citymode... to optimize gas miled to how you drive. The afc hardware will be just a box with some leds so it can be hidden.. and you use a computer to program the a/f, using this software. Hardware will have 0-1v outupt also and will have wideband input to help adjust. Idea is once you program it you dont have to see it again.. maybe just have any a/f gauge to display.. or use the computer if you want. The hardware will be able to work with the boost gauge/controller also, might even make the boost adjustable through the software, just ideas i havent finished yet tho. I want this afc to be able to do map and maf.. and sensor up to 12v... you tell it what it is in the software and and then the software controls it. What do you guys think of that ? |
Re: Electronic Boost Controller
Looks nice, but my question is why? Are you going to charge money for the SAFC program and harware. If so, one probably would lean toward UberData, Chrome or Turboedit being as it will beable to adjust more finely, comensate for timing and add many other features.
It's neast to see someone playing with ideas like this though. Good work. Another Question: Is your Boost Controller going to be Open or Closed loop. Is it going to be tuneable by the user other then boost level and gain? |
Re: Electronic Boost Controller
after you start making these you should try and sell diy kits for the people that are really cheap but want a decent ebc
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Re: Electronic Boost Controller
Well why does anyone buy a SAFC in the first place..
1. they dont want to deal with modding the ecu 2. They want to fine tune there a/f ratios.. either for extreme temperature changes, better gas mileage etc. 3. They dont have a turbo setup and just want some more fuel top end for their bolt ons. This is a cheaper setup then the Apexi afc, and is hidden, Should be able to work for other cars other than Hondas. The boost controller is closed loop(feedback off of boost sensor output). Yes i guess i could make it so you can change the boost curve(differnt boost at different rpms)<-Is that what you mean? I would jsut ahve to add a RPM input which wouldnt be hard.... i guess i could make that optional. Good feedback.. any other questions comments .. Thanks Brian |
Re: Electronic Boost Controller
I dont see why all the fuss over the apexi avc-r being so hard to setup ??? If you dont hook it up right and/or hook up EVERYTHING (rpm/tps/etc) then its impossible to setup. Once its properly installed it should work like a dream, mine does. 11psi on the dot every time, no less and no spike. If the temp. changes enough to change boost its a easy fix.... I think people just make things harder than they actually are. I was at a loss when I first installed it on how to tune it but with a little bit of research the next day it was on the ball ;-)
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Re: Electronic Boost Controller
You don't live in the mountains, huh, where it's not uncommon to go up or drop 2000+ feet in under a half hour?
Let's not forget the comparatively extreme temp variations between day + night found at higher elevations... or my meager "usual" 2700 ft. Yeah, AVC-R are ------- annoying. |
Re: Electronic Boost Controller
I live in Morgantown, West Virginia. In the apps. I previously built a boost gauge and the baro only changed maybe .2psi. Not sure how much i actually elevation changed but it wasnt anything drastic.
Do aftermarket boost controllers run off your Map Sensor? How many wires are there to hook up... cause on mine im only picturing power, ground, maybe tach, and the vacuum lines. Am i missing something here? |
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