Drawn Through Turbo - Propane Injection
 

I have gone through the FAQ and read up on what I could that pertain to what I am trying to do, but haven't really found anything close to what I'm trying to do.

I have a 1976 FJ40 Land Cruiser that is built for rock crawling. The engine I have is the basic straight 6, 257.9 CI that runs on propane. The compression ratio on the engine is stupid low 7.8:1 and propane is rated at 110 octane. I have a HEI distributor that is mechanical advance, and is advanced at 16* at idle currently. I can get away with such a large advance because of the high octane fuel and my low compression ratio, the engine still hasn't pinged on me.

I have been throwing around the idea of turbo for my 2f engine (straight 6) and have done some general research. Mostly I am finding information of 4cyl or 8cyl engines. The 2f engine is a very low revving engine that maxes out at 5000 rpm if I feel lucky, more like around 4000 - 4200 rpms. Then name of the game for me in what I do is low rpms with a ton of gear reduction. When I am in first gear with both transfer cases engaged I have a final gear ratio of 289:1, so I am not looking for some high horse power monster.

I am basically trying to find a turbo that will spool up pretty quickly (1500 - 2000rpms) and have my power band maxed completely out around 3000 - 3500 rpms or maybe a little more. I am leaning towards using a T3/T4 combo but I had a friend suggest using a 13b from an eagle talon. With my propane set up it is a basic system using a fuel lock off valve, a vaporizer and a mixer that puts the propane vapor into the intake. After talking to a propane guru I will need to use a drawn through turbo system. The propane mixer has a variable venturi which is nothing more than a diaphragm that opens and closes allowing more or less propane to flow through the system depending on how much vaccuum the engine is pulling. The entire propane system is under constant pressure from the propane tank so I do not have any fuel pumps of the sort. I have a self adjusting fuel management system basically and it allows me to run upside down if the occasion ever asks for it ;D

I am curious what you guys would have to say with my application. If you have any questions or need any more information please let me know.

Re: Drawn Through Turbo - Propane Injection
 

t3 super 60? I cant think of ny other propane engines so I am not sure what sort of exhaust characteristics it has.

Re: Drawn Through Turbo - Propane Injection
 

you may or may not need to add fuel injectors into the setup. a 60/63 t3, a small t3/4 combo, or even a hx30 will work for you. that size on an engine, youll boost at idle almost, it's too small. 14b, 16g, sure.

propane is weird. ford propane 300's had a timing box, it changed timing. vac advance retards when it sees pressure, too ;)

Re: Drawn Through Turbo - Propane Injection
 

is that actually possible??

Re: Drawn Through Turbo - Propane Injection
 

I do not need fuel injectors with my set up. My engine originally had a carburetor on it and I converted to propane for the characteristics of fuel injections without the wiring. It is a very popular conversion for 4x4's since it is easy and simple to install. When the propane enters into the mixer it is a vapor so there is no liquid so to speak entering into the intake.

I was thinking for a quick spooling T3/T4 combo so I can have the bigger boost of the T4 but the quicker spooling capabilities of the T3. I will be making my own customer adapter plates so which ever turbo I go with is not a problem. There is one other Land Cruiser that has a drawn through propane set up and he is using a straight T4 set up and said he was making boost around 2000 rpms but had a ton of exhaust leaks in his system.

Re: Drawn Through Turbo - Propane Injection
 

post pics of your truck and propane set up

Re: Drawn Through Turbo - Propane Injection
 

My build up thread

My Propane Set Up

The propane tech article had my old propane set up before it was stolen. I have a brand new set up using the same parts but it is brand new. The base plate is different as well using a solid aluminum base plate that is a large 1 barrel. The current mixer is rated at 345 cfm and I will be changing it out to a 425 cfm mixer for the turbo.

Re: Drawn Through Turbo - Propane Injection
 

Thats a gangster FJ you've got there. Any idea how much money you have into it? But anyway, like was said already, a t3/t4 combo would give you the quick boost you needed. Also consider a smaller holset turbo like the hx30, the holsets are off of dodge diesel's and have been shown to be very efficient turbos, not to mention they are pretty cheap used versus a t3/t4. I'm a little confused as to why you would need to use a draw-through setup? I suppose propane doesn't require atomization like gas would, but it seems like you could do a blow-through setup which would require little to no modification of your system as it sits

Re: Drawn Through Turbo - Propane Injection
 

Talking to the guy that I bought my kit from and he said that drawn through is the only way to go with propane. He was the director for alternative fuels for Arizona so I am going to trust with what he has to say. Plus he has a built a number of custom drawn through turbo set ups and its basically set it up and drive off type deal. The entire propane system works on vacuum from the engine so it make sense to have it a drawn through instead of blow through.

What trim sizes would be recommended from the t3/t4 combo?

Re: Drawn Through Turbo - Propane Injection
 

figure out what your engine will flow, and find a turbo compressor map thatll flow what your engine does, without going grossly oversized.

Re: Drawn Through Turbo - Propane Injection
 

Like to see something different.. From what I remember, the draw through turbo setups always have a different sound..(old turbo 1 dodge 2.2)

Re: Drawn Through Turbo - Propane Injection
 

any vids of the beast in action?

Re: Drawn Through Turbo - Propane Injection
 

From the thread that had all the calculations I came up with (257.9 x 4500) / 3456 = 335.81

335.81 x .80 = 268.65 cfm

I'll start looking through the turbo maps again and see what will work for me. I'm still leaning toward the t3/t4 combo for availability and for the quick spool/big boost.

Re: Drawn Through Turbo - Propane Injection
 

I know there are some videos and pictures of my rig floating around but none that I know of on the internet. Here is a random photo for a little rock garden at our local stomping grounds. Tillamook State Forest, Oregon.

http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/1918/rock03el0.jpg


I also have another Land Cruiser project as well. It is a 1964 FJ45 LV Land Cruiser wagon. I put a '04 6.0L Chevy Vortec, 700r4 tranny, spring over rear, 3 link/coil overs in the front, 315 (35") Toyo tires, Power steering, tube fenders, air conditioning/heater, and whatever seats that will fit inside that have a built in heater :D

Re: Drawn Through Turbo - Propane Injection
 

Okay talked with a local turbo place in Washington and he had me call Turbonetics. They suggested a t3/t4 e50 stage 5, .48.

Personally I don't want to be spending $900 on a turbo set up. Are there any places that sell rebuilt turbos that will have this set up?

Re: Drawn Through Turbo - Propane Injection
 

try blaast, who is a sponsor on here. he rebuilds turbos and has a lot of rebuilt ones in stock for sale, and can definitely recommend the right turbo to you. I'm telling you, you should really check out some of the holset turbos. There are some compressor maps on honda-tech if you do a google search for them.

Re: Drawn Through Turbo - Propane Injection
 

i am not a propane guru. with that said:
i did a prpane setup on a ranger that i swapped a 2.3turbo into. i blew through the mixer, not a draw through. the mixer i had a port on for a pressure signal (i.e. a tube that takes the boost from the intake and feeds is to the diaphram so it counter acts the ammount of boost the mixer sees) to run it draw through, would the vacuum shut the diaphram? unless it has this boost/vacuum reference signal port that you could feed vacuum to it to keep it open, but i dont understand w
here you would get a accurate vacuum signal from in a boost application, even if you had it between the mixer and the inlet of the turbo.

btw fwiw, i had no problems with the ranger, except for 1. i kept blowing out the gasket between the mixer and the air hat (huge ass super sticky windshield sealing tape fied that. then 2. that created the problem of it ripped out the stud that mounts the hat to the mixer out of teh mixer (its only aluminum and was hitting 24psi). 3. had too small of a tank (8 gal forklift) and not enough places to fill it.

Re: Drawn Through Turbo - Propane Injection
 

I started looking at those as well. Called a place and the guy recommended a HY35 that came out of the '00 - '01 Dodge diesels. He said the HX30 would be a good alternative as well but thought the HY35 would be a little better for my application. I found some compressor maps dsmtuners.com so I'll keep digging around.

Re: Drawn Through Turbo - Propane Injection
 

Doing a draw through design would replicate how my set up is currently right now. Currently the entire set up is being run off of engine vacuum and by putting the mixer on the suction side of the turbo it is keeping the same characteristics. I believe for a blow through design you will have to run a vacuum tube from the mixer to the vaporizer. So under boost that vacuum line will travel to the vaporizer diaphragm allowing it to open up more to let larger amount of propane to flow through.

Here is a link to the one off turbo propane set up that was set up originally in Australia. He is using a straight t4 with an external wastegate. I am deciding between a t3/t4, HY35, or HX30 and I want to use an internal waste gate.

Drawn Through Turbo Propane

Re: Drawn Through Turbo - Propane Injection
 

the hy35's are a little harder to come by because they are newer, but the hx35's that came on the same trucks in the years earlier are very similar. From my understanding, the hy35 is slightly smaller and a lil bit more efficient, but the hx35 is not far off at all, and a very popular turbo around HMT. Different size exhaust sides came on different trucks depending on the year, whether it was auto or stick, etc so there is room to play, and there is at least one company (bullydog or bulldog?) that makes a different aftermarket exhaust side also.

heres one build with an hx35
https://www.homemadeturbo.com/forum/...?topic=83325.0

Joseph Davis is using one for is 500hp build if he ever finishes it, along with a lot of other people if you ask around

Re: Drawn Through Turbo - Propane Injection
 

I found a HY35 on ebay going for about $150, so I can obtain one if I'm really set on it. For the exhaust side I wouldn't want to go larger that 3", preferably around 2.5" if I can. I'm thinking the Holset would probably be better for what I'm doing since my engine has the same rpm range as a diesel truck. MY '05 Dodge CTD 6 spd manual revs out at 5k and I will barely hit 3K, same goes with my FJ40 unless I'm really getting on it in the ice/snow wheeling. Plus the Holset has an internal waste gate already set up on it and a ton of boost.

For a blow off valve could I re-route the blow off valve to re-enter into the inlet side of the turbo? Since my fuel will be flowing through the turbo itself I do not think it is wise to be shooting raw propane into my engine compartment every time I get off the gas especially when I'm rock crawling. Constantly stopping and going, shifting gears, and wide band of rpm range.

Re: Drawn Through Turbo - Propane Injection
 

yes, you could reroute your blow off valve back into the pre turbo intake. Thats how they do it for mass air flow metered cars, because it would throw off their a/f ratio if the amount of air metered does not enter the engine. Sort of the same principle for you, except this way you'll be prevent small explosions under your hood ;D plus you're being more efficient with your fuel. On a side note, how does running the fj on propane compare cost wise to running gasoline? I'm not current with the current propane prices and have no idea how much you use/how fast it is used when powering a large engine

Re: Drawn Through Turbo - Propane Injection
 

fractionally more consumption, more power, but isn't as explosive. 108-112 octane out of the tank

Re: Drawn Through Turbo - Propane Injection
 

Sweet that solves that problem.

Propane in Oregon costs around $2.25 a gallon. Propane is less efficient in consumption unless you build an engine to burn the 110 octane that it is rated at. Engines with 10:1 or 11:1 compression would run really well on propane, however my 2f is 7.8:1 so it doesn't burn it as efficiently. That is why I am wanting to do a turbo for my engine to up the compression. I could mill out the head but I like being different.

I use a 10 gallon fork lift tank and it will last me an entire day on it plus a little extra left over. However I am always crawling around so I'm not using mass quantities of fuel to get across a rock garden or trail.

Re: Drawn Through Turbo - Propane Injection
 

a turbo has no place in a rock crawler.

Re: Drawn Through Turbo - Propane Injection
 

Sure it does. Watch me do it :P

Re: Drawn Through Turbo - Propane Injection
 

P.S.

The Icelanders make everyone the rock crawling world look like pussies. 1000hp buggies flying up the side of volcanic ash.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51A3z...eature=related

Extreme Rock Racing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bezERopPm1s

High horse power buggy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7_HH...eature=related