Block Guard Or Posting?
 

im putting together my setup for 400whp on my b18c1. i know i know, someone will tell me to sleeve it. but, i want a cheaper effective alternative, if it so exists. ive heard some negative things about block guards, and i know block posting is also an option. with that amount of power, what do you guys suggest i do, i really do not want to sleeve it, as the cost of that is out of my range right now.


also, when it comes to block posting.....what happens when later down the road i DO want to sleeve it, and now there are holes in the block?

Re: Block Guard Or Posting?
 

B-series sleeves are good to at least 350 HP (from what i've heard)

i posted my D, i'll let ya know how it goes once it actualy runs O0

Re: Block Guard Or Posting?
 

People have done 650+ whp on stock sleeves, Stephan here on HMT did 500+ whp I believe, not sure about Josh Ross's dad's car when it had stock sleeves (might have made a lot before it was sleeved), so you should be fine at only 400whp, with good tuning of course.

Re: Block Guard Or Posting?
 

there are people making 500whp on stock sleeve right now. I know of 2 who are 430whp for 6months strong now.

Re: Block Guard Or Posting?
 

Ive rocked 350ish whp on my stock sleeves for well over a yr now. sure, its problably only been driven half of that time, but when it does, it gets ripped on hard. Its also survived about 10 full pulls through an LS 4th gear on 20psi of SC61 lovin'

Re: Block Guard Or Posting?
 

of course, im a firm believer in good tuning, so thats no doubt :)

seems as if my sleeves should be ok at 400 from what you guys are saying, but is that with a block guard, posting, or what? also keep in mind that this is my dd :s

Re: Block Guard Or Posting?
 

stock sleeves, meaning no block guard or posting. Dave is on OEM pistons and rods too, unless I am mistaken.

Re: Block Guard Or Posting?
 

wow im suprised....im running eagle h beam rods and je 9:1 pistons. think that is really that safe or shoud i atleast post?

Re: Block Guard Or Posting?
 

Your fine dude.

Re: Block Guard Or Posting?
 

your fine Good luck on your goal of 400

Re: Block Guard Or Posting?
 

damn i dont think i convince myself of just letting them go like that, i kinda wanna post it just for extra peace of mind, i mean it woulda hurt ya know?

Re: Block Guard Or Posting?
 

Then do it, but it wont make much of a difference, I can show you a pic of a 350ish whp setup that was posted/pinned that cracked the sleeves right where the pin/post was set at. It's all in tuning

Re: Block Guard Or Posting?
 

alright, i think ill post just for a little extra security. i just really hope they will take 400whp.

Re: Block Guard Or Posting?
 

I've said this a number of times. Posting/block guards are a bad idea. Floating sleeves were designed to expand and contract. Its a characterist of metal, and in the design it was allowed for. Now by installing posts/block guard it keeps the sleeves from expanding/contracting. This will stress the metal because metal in general does what it feels like. So the end result will be stressed sleeves. The only benefit of posting/block guards seems to be, when the sleeves fail, they fail in a less dramatic way so that sometimes your pistons are not totally fucked. If you want to know the trick to keeping stock sleeves and making power its relatively simple. Good machine work, proper tolerance, and conservative tuning.

Re: Block Guard Or Posting?
 

what you are saying makes sense in a way, but as long as they dont expand they have less chance of cracking (with the help of posting). however, by not posting it allow room to expand thus cracking sleeves. i understand a small amount of expanding is ok, but how likely is it that itll only expand a small amount, thus needing something to help hold them more in place. to me, "stress" as you said, is in TOO MUCH expanding

i dont know much about this, so this is just how i see it, i could be totally off *shruggs*

Re: Block Guard Or Posting?
 

Thats not right at all. Metal expands by its nature. Some metals expand less than others. What happens in a stock engine right now is as temperature increases, the sleeves can expand with the pistons. Nothing stops them from expanding because hondas have a floating deck design. The material used in the engine block also expands more than other metals in the world but we aren't talking about inches, but very small amounts. Now when you put posts you are effectively not allowing the sleeve to expand, which it naturally does. It was engineered to do so. So now the sleeve is pushing against the post/guard yet can't move out. This causes unnecessary stress. Yes the sleeve doesn't want to expand much, but it still wants to, and you aren't letting it. I can't think of any reason not to let the sleeves expand that small amount, so its unnecessary stress. This can throw off piston to wall specs as well because the piston will keep expanding, while the sleeve is staying more or less stationary. Overall, I've yet to see a single reason to install a block guard or posting. I've asked people to explain it to me on a number of occassions, and no one has.

http://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1612855&page=1

I wrote some information in that thread that explains my point of view inregards to blockguards. Username: nowtype. Hopefully that clears things up as I don't feel like retyping everything. I apologize for the other idiots in the thread. Its honda-tech, you can't expect much.

Re: Block Guard Or Posting?
 

i completely understand what you are saying, im not saying that it doesnt make sense. but my question to you is, what causes sleeves to crack if its not the expanding of the sleeves when left untouched and unmodified?

Re: Block Guard Or Posting?
 

I put a GE blockguard in my ls vtec i just built.It was file fitted prior to boring.I felt it really couldnt hurt and if anything hopefully it will prevent ruining the pistons etc if i crack a sleeve due to my tuning :P

Re: Block Guard Or Posting?
 

Read this if you want to know why sleeves crack. That website has a lot of very good info.

http://forums.evans-tuning.com/viewtopic.php?t=133

Re: Block Guard Or Posting?
 

my buddy is now done building his gsr hatch with just pistons and rods and a blockguard and his tuner told him he would get him 500hp on the gt30. the tuner i guess has tuned multiple setup's without sleeves for 500hp

Re: Block Guard Or Posting?
 

Sleeves crack because of cylinder pressure. Lets say a stock engine at peak torque your cylinder pressure is 1000psi. Well 400hp, the cylinder pressure will be significantly higher. For numbers sake, we will say its 3000psi. Now you are already taking the sleeves 3x times the peak cylinder pressure found in a regular engine. Now if detonation occurs(which is essentially the only way to destroy sleeves other than a block overheating to hell, but even then detonation normally causes the destruction), the peak cylinder pressure wont be 3000psi but double or triple that number. That increase in cylinder pressure just destroys sleeves. Aftermarket sleeves handle higher cylinder pressures better due to the metal used thus allowing some detonation to be tolerated. At extremely high hp levels, your cylinder pressure is nothing compared to moderate hp levels with severe detonation.

Re: Block Guard Or Posting?
 

Inquisition - good thread, and suportive information

beerbongskickass - good link too, detonation *thumbs down* yup its all in the tuning!


i feel a little better now about just running stock sleeves.....

Re: Block Guard Or Posting?
 

Re: Block Guard Or Posting?
 

WTF ???

Re: Block Guard Or Posting?
 

hahaha

you're beating a dead horse with this topic.

Re: Block Guard Or Posting?
 

evans forum is hands down the most informative site on tuning/boost/physics of engines. too many cockfights on H-T to get any real knowledge.

Re: Block Guard Or Posting?