B18a1 pistons STOCK vs. FoRGED
 

I'm in a bit of a dilema right now. Planning for my new build~ I've been a dedicated fan of the D16z6, but i've cracked two blocks. Eagle H beams and JE / SRP pistons hold up STRONG! (was pushing close to 400hp)

But now... I really dont know many details to the strenghts of the B series parts.
This new build, i'm deffinately getting some TT rods, but what about the pistons??? Vitara doesn't make pistons for the B18 does it??? Stock rods hold up to 300hp~ But what about the pistons? Can i push the stock pistons? HOw much?

With TT rods, Stock pistons, and new OEM piston rings, what HP can i push?

What are the cheapest aftermarket pistons for the B? I dont want to spend more than $200.




On a side note: I've heard nothing but bad reliability from the B18 LS / vtec convertion... WHY? what goes wrong???

Re: B18a1 pistons STOCK vs. FoRGED
 

first off...vitara is a model of a suzuki, not a piston manufacturer. second, from my experience the pistons are the first thing to go on a B, if youre bothering to do rods just do pistons (but if your budget is 200 that wont happen without buying used)

Re: B18a1 pistons STOCK vs. FoRGED
 

Vitara pistons come in 75 and 76mm for sure. I had a set for my D16z6 build.. until the machine shop discovered a crack, and i had to junk the block.

There are many Honda's using Vitara SUV pistons~ Check it out, there's quite a few using the pistons on turbod16.com because the Suzuki vitara is a 1.6L engine also.


But what happens to the stock pistons? they crack and break up? the intake relief area's melt down? They melt holes right through the middle???

How much power CAN they take? (stock b18 pistons)
What are my options for aftermarket pistons?

Re: B18a1 pistons STOCK vs. FoRGED
 

The pistons will do 300whp properly tuned. Just like any stock cast piston, you run lean, and that bitch will pwn you. But really if your making 400whp+ the rods will go first.

And dont get me started on the ls/vtec. But to make it simple, the d-seies rod bolts and b18b rod bolts are the same, yet people try and rev there stock b18b bottom end 8.5k and wonder why ---- falls appart.

Re: B18a1 pistons STOCK vs. FoRGED
 

I revved my D to 8,500 rpms without a problem... ever... i had a cracked sleeve due to lack of a block guard at 350hp , nothing wrong w/ the bottom end.


So the pistons do 300hp easily... I know the bottom end of an LS block is good for 300hp stock... I'm looking for around 450. Will stock pistons handle this with Eagle H beam rods??? YES ON A PROPERLY tuned engine. I will not be revving over 7400rpm
but Eagle rods go for 600+hp... my limit will be the pistons. This will be tuned properly... no doubt about that... (i tune my own motors)


Cliff notes: without revving the B18a1 past 7400rpm, and Eagle H beam rods, how much power will the stock pistons take? 450 safe?

My setup is 750cc injectors, full 3" exhaust, t3/to4e turbo, p28 on crome, and XXX amount of psi to push the limits of the stock pistons... unless i find a good set for less than 200$

Re: B18a1 pistons STOCK vs. FoRGED
 

If you cant afford to pay the $420ish for forged pistons mabey u shouldnt be building a 400+whp honda :l

ur not going to make 450whp on pump gas on Stock cast pistons :3 with racegas anythings possible :6

Re: B18a1 pistons STOCK vs. FoRGED
 

Hmmm I have standard bore srp forged pistons for sale. I never used them but the guy i got them from said he only used them for 1 dyno pull (in pretty minty shape so i believe him). They are 10:1 comp for the b16, but that gives about a 9.4:1 in a b18a/b (just right in my opinion). I bought them for $200 so thats what I'll sell them for. $250 and I'll throw in the je pro seal rings (unused, bought from summit for $80 and never did the build). I also have arp rod standard size rod bolts for a b18 too, and a mr.gasket 3 layer head gasket, and clevite rod bearings. PM me if interested

Re: B18a1 pistons STOCK vs. FoRGED
 

Edit: Meant for PM not post reply :1

and in reply to other guy above... nope, i have no idea what i'm doing with 400whp... i have no idea how to tune either? (Sarcasm) i just taught the guy who owned the dyno and "rebuilds" hondas.


Just want to know the limits of the stock pistons, because the Vitara cast pistons in the D series have pushed over 400hp... and i'm ignorant to the B pistons tolerances.

Re: B18a1 pistons STOCK vs. FoRGED
 

I should be going home for a while on wednesday, if not then, this weekend, and i'll get some good pics for ya.

Re: B18a1 pistons STOCK vs. FoRGED
 

power kills rods
a bad tune melts pistons

Re: B18a1 pistons STOCK vs. FoRGED
 

i know people use vitara pistons in d16s because they share the same bore...you wrote it in your first post like vitara was a piston company lol

Re: B18a1 pistons STOCK vs. FoRGED
 

Exactly.

Re: B18a1 pistons STOCK vs. FoRGED
 

Well let me put it this way, a guy I know is making 334whp on his stock B16 with a good dyno tune. how long will it hold that power? well if the timing stays the same and the tune stays the same then the only thing that can go wrong is the rods wont be able to hold the power and eventually weaken and snap.

EDIT:
You come on here asking how much power a stock piston will handle, meaning you want more than 200~250whp, in this case why not just dish out the extra $300 and get forged pistons? just a logical thought.

Re: B18a1 pistons STOCK vs. FoRGED
 

Detonation is the biggest killer on any Honda cast piston...even the b-series ones. Your ringlands will be the first things to go (they still sit high just like the d-series ones do), and if the combustion chamber temps get hot enough, it will start to melt them. I've nuked a couple of b18 pistons on conservative setups, one was due to shitty fuel and started pinging, and I'm pretty sure the others just saw too much heat from too small/inefficient turbo setups. If you're one the road to 400+hp, then stock cast pistons is not the vehicle to get you there.

Re: B18a1 pistons STOCK vs. FoRGED
 

I'm debating if i can go stock pistons only because im broke, and It's 3 weeks before xmas~~~ Can't spend too much $ on myself...

Hypothetical situation:
I have tuner toy H rods, or Eagle H beams...
Stock B18 pistons (9.7:1 C/R???)
Felpro (stock) headgasket, so i'm not lowering c/r or double decking the headgasket
running 20psi tuned right... no detonation... with 93 octane


Would the pistons hold? I'm more worried about the Rods... i'm 90% sure i'm goin w/ TT rods for $225.

Will i be a first to push the limits of stock pistons? (w/ H beam rods)?


Cliff Notes: Although it's not advisable to push stock pistons, has anyone done it, and what did they handle? what are they still running?

Re: B18a1 pistons STOCK vs. FoRGED
 

if you can keep heat and detonationi under control the stockers might sufice.

Re: B18a1 pistons STOCK vs. FoRGED
 

you will ---- those pistons up before the stock rods most likely...you wont be the first to push the limits of the pistons by using tt rods with them since many of us have cracked stock pistons before breaking/bending a rod. so either leave the internals alone and push the stock ---- or just do the whole thing

Re: B18a1 pistons STOCK vs. FoRGED
 

even besides the stock pistons holding, the rings and ringlands are very likely to let loose at that high of cylinder pressures. haha but thats coming from the guy trying to sell you pistons and rings :S

Re: B18a1 pistons STOCK vs. FoRGED
 

ringlands are part of the piston ;) ...thats what i was referring to really when i said the pisons would go first

Re: B18a1 pistons STOCK vs. FoRGED
 

ghettoturbo gives the best advice here...do it all or leave it alone.

Re: B18a1 pistons STOCK vs. FoRGED
 

Also you cant use stock honda pistons with aftermarket rods.

Re: B18a1 pistons STOCK vs. FoRGED
 

im sure someone out there makes them for press-fit pins, but why bother

Re: B18a1 pistons STOCK vs. FoRGED
 

Well from reading his post he mentioned TT or Eagles.

You sure they make press fit aftermarket rods? as far as I know all forged rods were made with a sliding pin design, but then again I may be wrong.

Re: B18a1 pistons STOCK vs. FoRGED
 

are you serious???

its a honda, ALL b and d-series seem to go in the same order...

pistons<rods<sleeves

pistons being the weakest, b series and d series ringlands seem to suck, people DO make high hp out of stock blocks, but why not just save a few hundred more dollars, and go with some srp pistons, tunertoys rods, and arp headstuds and call it a day???

if nothing else, your STUPID if u put aftermarket rods in with stock pistons, if ANYTHING slap some srp's on top of the stock rods, a good low compression pistons too, like 8.5:1 and then run your 20psi, give yourself a detonation cushion iwth the compression to protect the stock rods... and dont rev too high, b18a/b dont like being revved out much...

Re: B18a1 pistons STOCK vs. FoRGED
 

this thread is retarded, if you do rods, then you need to do pistons as well, what a waste to do one and not the other, and there is no ------- way that stock LS pistons will handle 400-450 whp for more than a few days, I dont care if your the god of tuning, with cylinder pressures that high the ring lands are DONE in no time flat.... and I didnt see you post anything about the head your using, but it better be built, because a stock LS head wont make 450 whp even if you throw 25 psi at it from that t3/t4, it needs at least cams. and an intake mani., p+p job, and springs and retainers wouldnt hurt... bottom line if you dont build a motor right, its gonna blow up if you try to push it, and a stock LS head will not make 450 whp....best of luck to ya ;)

Re: B18a1 pistons STOCK vs. FoRGED
 

if it is apart get them both the b series rods will hold more the 300 it is the pistons that let loose. or melt. pistons would have been a better investment over the rods.

Re: B18a1 pistons STOCK vs. FoRGED
 

i was told that the factory honda pistons wont go onto my eagle hbeams by the shop i took them to earlier today. so is there a trick to makin them work or what?

Re: B18a1 pistons STOCK vs. FoRGED
 

The only reason the LS-V is unreliable is because of situations like this - PENNY PINCHING and downright IGNORANCE. People put HG's on backwards, don't do the dowels right, run a cheap oil supply setup, etc etc. With a little homework, experience, CONSCIOUS THOUGHT, and a bit more money, and LS-V can be as reliable as a GSR buildup.

Stock pistons with forged rods will need machining done to accept a circlip/spiral-lock/etc to keep the floating pin in place. AFAIK press-fit forged rods don't exist from TT, let alone ANy company. Its a safe bet that if they do, the extra cost is the same as forged pistons. Getting the pistons machined and getting the locks will eat away at your savings over forged, and you'll have nothing to show for it.

FYI There was a 560whp bone-stock B16 about a year or two ago. After several dynos and 1/4mile passes, it finally cracked the ringlands. Rods (stock!) and bearings were fine. I think the same deal happened to a similar stock H22. The only real motor that didn't follow this rule was D16Z6 from Epic tuning. The ringlands survived, but thats because ALL four rods bent slightly. This effectivly reduced the CR and automaticly made the conservative timing FAR MORE conservative.


CLIFFS: Your a complete moron if you do a B18 build w/o forged pistons. **ANY** problems you encounter will >100% offset your $$ savings.

Re: B18a1 pistons STOCK vs. FoRGED
 

ok well feel free to pay for my $500 drinking tickets and ill gladly get pistons. but untill then im just tryin to figure out if they will go on the rods and work.

Re: B18a1 pistons STOCK vs. FoRGED
 

One of my friends is running 100% stock ls (except for head studs and headgasket) ebay t3/t4 topmount mani at 18#s of boost and sometimes hits boost cut at 21psi
Makes close to 350whp and runs 12.2 in 1/4 on DRs
All on pump gas


Another friends is running an LS/VTEC at 18 psi with a GT30R. Also 100% factory except head studs and he used a 10 year old head gasket for this
Made 361whp on a dyno dynamics
Ran 11.5 in 1/4 on 20" slicks


Now has pistons & rod combo, also put a new Head Gasket in
525whp


Both cars were done by the same tuner. Over 500 hondas tuned in the past 7 years. So what im trying to say is it's all up to the tune. Run e85 if you can to achieve more power safely or race gas

Re: B18a1 pistons STOCK vs. FoRGED
 

Stock pistons in a stock LS isnt' the issue here, its building the entire motor and leaving cast slugs in it. A stock LS is worth less than forged pistons, while bearings/gaskets/pumps/rods/crank polishing/honing all cost a little bit more, and can't be sourced as cheaply or quickly as a stock LS. HMT is about blowing up 100% stock motors, then building big, not half-assing a build. You only half-ass on looks at HMT when it comes to turbo cars. Go big or go home go get an SRT-4, simple as that.

How about this - quit drinking & driving like a depressed circus clown and you won't have tickets to pay. Or just stop failing at life and don't get caught.

Re: B18a1 pistons STOCK vs. FoRGED
 

wasnt driving i was in the back seat. the boys decided to go downtown were the clubs were and carry a case on the way, then dumbass decides to roll the windows down on a street loaded with cops and start drinking. needless to say within minutes he had us pulled. everyone except the driver blew somethin and got underage and open container. the driver got the window tint ticket, and it wasnt even his car lol.

Re: B18a1 pistons STOCK vs. FoRGED
 

why are you responding to hella old as threads


/thread

Re: B18a1 pistons STOCK vs. FoRGED
 

because im too ignorant to read the date and apparently people still respond anyway

Re: B18a1 pistons STOCK vs. FoRGED
 

Glad we settled that.

Re: B18a1 pistons STOCK vs. FoRGED
 

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