Shizuma

Well I never said taking out the 4ag that's in the corolla right now was a good idea, IMO opinion it would mess up the balance of the car and add weight that could have been avoided at that power level just by turboing the engine that's already there, like you said...however, I have to disagree when you say the 3s-gte is a piece...while it's true they may be more expensive to build than the other engine's you listed they're still going to be able to hold more power at a given modification level than a B series engine, and IMO are way more reliable than the mitsu 4G63...plus, how you can say a 4ag is better to turbocharge than an engine that comes turbocharged is beyond me, but regardless the 3s-gte is most definetly not crap

Tom-Guy

I partially tuned his roomate's Microtech/3S-GTE last night, the guy has four or five 3S-GTE laying around his shop, 1JZ, 2JZ, 7M, 4A, blah blah blah. The roomate's wife is the one with the ST165/ST205 Celica. You're kinda in a gangbang of Toyota expertise here, with me just parroting what I've been told by people who obviously know the situation.

FYI, Hitchhikkr said 4G63 and made no mention of anything attached to the 4G63. As such, he is 100% correct - there is little on this earth stouter than a 1G 4G63 long block, I've experienced the might and the glory myself.

I can be in and out of a B-series for under a grand, stock sleeves good to past 600 whp, head good for well past that. And that's just an LS, none of the V-Tech hype. I dunno, tho, it's a little unfair having me back up that Honduh statement, I can pull up resources and parts for better prices than most people get, and tuning is of course free off of the stock ECU. I guess at this point Hitchhikkr can, too, there's been a sort of communal pooling of resources lately with the ultimate goal being the total domination of WNC.

For great justice!

Hitchhikkr

First off, I am retarded and have no internet skillz, i meant to quote drifto but clicked you for some reason, my bad.

The 3sgte has a few serious problems that need to be addressed before you can make any decent power
1. Crankshafts are prone to CRACKING (have 5 cracked ones at the shop)
2. Pistons wont hold much more than 300hp or so.
3. If the pistons dont let go, the rod bearings do (3 sezied motors @home)
4. Headgaskets pop, even on bone stock mr2's
5. Cylinder heads flow poorly even compared to 4age. Not to mention a 4g63 or even a b18b...You must remember the 4age was designed to be supercharged too. (20V flows best, followed by the blue tops)
6. The CT series turbos are all at least 10+ years old and MOST of the time need to be rebuilt, wont last very long at higher boost levels.

For the record, the st205 is a better engine, but most of guts are different, the rods at least, the cylinder head, not much swaps from a 2nd gen 3s to the 3rd gen 3s. Keep this in mind as parts are VERY expensive to obtain for the st205.

There is nothing unreliable about the 4g63. Mine had 170,000 on THE STOCK LONGBLOCK and was running 12.30's in the 1/4 and still drove to work everyday. Was still running perfect when I sold It. The 4g63 is ------- indestructable, but it was cursed with faulty wiring, cheap sensors, and a glass transmission. The only thing that kills them is when ppl ignore the timing belt interval and THEN they pop. However, ive seen stock 3sgtes, with 62,000 miles blow headgaskets. Hmm. How again is the 4g63 unreliable if so many 400hp dsm's are running around on the stock longblocks

Im sorry if I come off as an -------, im really a nice guy, but there are so many misconceptions about the 3s because of the internet. Sorry. Had to get that out of my system. If you have any specific questions feel free to ask.

I know. Its ok. We can get you help. I promise.
:P

Shizuma

I'm not going to quote you 'cause it'd be huge

It's cool about the mis-quote, I was kinda like wtf?...anyway the early MR2 and st165 3s-gte's weren't that great, they were Toyota's first attempts at an engine of that nature...they took the 3s-ge lowered the compression and turbocharged it...as time went on, the later versions of the 3s-gte got better with the st185 and finally th st205 being the best. The fact that Toyota still uses the 3s-gte in it's Caldina is testement to its worth as an engine...as per your 5th point, no argument there, the head on the engine sucks, and yes the B series and the 4ag heads will outflow the head on the 3s...in all fairness though, they were designed to be N/A and therefore have greater emphasis on head design...as for the turbo, yea they suck, most OEM turbos of that era do suck (the t25 on the 4g63 included)...as for the 4g63's unreliability, you're correct on their merit in terms of an engine, that was a bad call by me...when I think about it is the tranny and poor maintainence that craps out most of the time (those are their own problems, and probably take away from the reliability of the car, but not of the engine)...anyway, I still agree with you that to build a good 3s-gte is expensive, and that parts for the st205 are expensive and rare, and furthermore, while dropping one into the 86 chassis might sound cool...it will probably disrupt the car's handling and responsiveness which is what it's famous for in the first place...lol and I don't think you're an -------, I just don't think that going so far as to say the 3s-gte is a piece is necessarily correct IMO...putting it in an '86 is........

Hitchhikkr

I find myself exaggerating things sometimes to get my point across.

My roomate is the Mr2Guru, maybe youve heard of him? Yeah so I get alot of useless toyota knowledge stuffed into my head lol.

.Sam.

i my self have had alot of time workin on the 3s(having owned 2 na st162's and a uncle having 2 all tracs a 165 and 185 plus a 3sgte 84 toyota 4wd truck) i have also worked on my fair share of ae86's having own3d 2 ae86s. i have been warned of the 3s and its many problems and weight issues. i am not agaisnt keeping the 4age in the ae86 but if the parts are there and having something different is the name of the game well i wanna do i. whats the difference of a 3s in a ae86 then a rb26 in a s13. my other option is using a blue top head on a 7a bottom end.turbo that. we totally thread jacked awesome.i appreciate everyones input. there is a shop in town that has a 3sge from a altezza in it and its slick, drifts the same goes up hills its very nice set uphttp://www.86tuning.com/projects/Pages/clip1.html

Shizuma

I think so....and it's all good, I'm about done with my turbo install (2zz-ge 2001 Celica GT-S) so I know a little about the toyota's engines...After I finish this up I'd like to grab an 86 and maybe work with an N/A 4ag, lol especially after this turbo project...anyway, what do you think of the cutting spark option that was mentioned up there? It sounds plausible, the only thing I'm kind of iffy about is maybe fouling the plugs...what do you think?

Shizuma

well, if you've just got the stuff to do it lying around, go for it, but I wouldn't sink any serious money into it, unforutnately on swaps like these, where you're trying to be original, that's what tends to happen

Tom-Guy

I think we should pit our roomates in a battle to the death, charge admission, and then rake in money on side bets. What do you think?



vs





We can also schedule a fight between you and I, where we try to brain each other with camshafts; I get a set of SR20 bumpsticks, you have to wield 4G63 cams.

Shizuma

^